Search found 782 matches

by zan
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:16 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

This is totally inappropriate and full of exaggerations and distortions and aggressive, baseless accusations of dishonesty. You have dramatically misconstrued my words and intentions and so I'll not dignify it with a response. Apologies you percieved my words as hurtful or something. Their actual m...
by zan
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:02 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Replies: 51
Views: 1260

Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:45 am
Greetings,
zan wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:18 pm
Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Nirvana is unconditioned, samsara is conditioned.

No amount of Mahariddling alters this true Dhamma.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Ah! I see! We do agree!

Sorry I failed to read this before! Always a pleasure to read your replies, thanks.
by zan
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:01 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Greetings zan, In your understanding, is escape from Samsara possible? If so, how, when Samsara and nibbana are one? If not, why bother studying dhamma? I believe I already addressed this matter in your other topic . Please be mindful also that this section has specific guidelines , which (for the ...
by zan
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:58 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

I haven't seen any of those teachers in 20 years nor been to those temples. Regardless, it is totally inappropriate for you to be baselessly accusing me of lying. You've always struck me as articulate, intelligent and very sophisticsted and reasonable and I've always valued your input. This is high...
by zan
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:07 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Greetings zan, So he agreed? That's not good lol! I want someone to definitively disagree and prove it wrong. This sounds like attachment to views. What of nibbana being this ineffable, unconditioned thing that is beyond normal understanding? Wouldn't that automatically put it beyond reasoning and ...
by zan
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:50 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Greetings Zan, I would recommend reading "The Heretic Sage"... a short series of interviews with ven. Nanananda. Thanks! At a cursory glance it seems like the Venerable in the article agrees with Nagarjuna? Am I reading it wrong? I'll be wary of what I say, mindful of the section we're in, but the ...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:59 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Doodoot gave a summary and one point was that , according to Nargarjuna, there was nothing that is real, no sabhava. A rather unlikely 'truth' I would say, and in conflict with Theravada. Exactly my point. Thank you. Glad to know I'm not alone in noticing this. But if he used canonical reasoning, h...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:58 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

If what I said is true? If you're going to imply I may be lying then why talk to me at all? Assuming you meant something else by that I'll continue my answer: Google search and you'll find successful teachers accepted as Zen masters or other Mahayana or Vajrayana masters who were known alcoholics, ...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:10 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

I should state that I know that much Mahayana and Vajrayana are beautiful, moral and useful interpretations of the dhamma. I am addressing here only where it contradicts the Buddha in ways specific to classical Theravada to be discussed in this context, from this perspective, and how a Theravadin mi...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:40 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

No, both teachers were real. These are not unheard of attitudes in Zen temples. Historically and also today. I know there's the idea of conventional/ultimate reality in Zen circles, but if what you said is true, that: The main teacher at one approved of drinking and using drugs because of the inter...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:05 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

You compared it to a martial art that is better for one's size or whatever, which seems to imply that Mahayana thinking may be better for some than orthodox Theravada. From the strictest orthodox perspective this is incorrect and only the orthodox is best, or even valid. I am orthodox and anything ...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:39 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Are you suggesting the Mahayana view presented by Nagarjuna is superior to the Theravada one? I disagree and have seen a huge number of reasons why this view is harmful, from inside Mahayana temples; I trained for several years in that tradition over 20 years ago. I never looked into Nagarjuna unti...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:15 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Srilankaputra wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:30 am
zan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:57 am
It proves nibbana and samsara are the same thing,
For those of us who don't want to read Nagarjuna, can you summarise his argument.
Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough to do this confidently. Sorry.
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:13 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

The Buddha delineated them repeatedly and made it quite clear that nibbana exist and is not samsara. So, starting with at least this point where Nagarjuna contradicts the Buddha, we must have some way to work around his logic, that is, assuming the Buddha of the suttas had superior logic, which sur...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 61
Views: 1565

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

I personally think this is quite unlikely. However I am an orthodox Theravadin and have been looking into Nagarjuna's work and it seems to undercut pretty much everything while using things found in the suttas, particularly dependent origination. It proves nibbana and samsara are the same thing, wh...