Search found 755 matches

by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:15 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 50
Views: 892

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Srilankaputra wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:30 am
zan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:57 am
It proves nibbana and samsara are the same thing,
For those of us who don't want to read Nagarjuna, can you summarise his argument.
Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough to do this confidently. Sorry.
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:13 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 50
Views: 892

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

The Buddha delineated them repeatedly and made it quite clear that nibbana exist and is not samsara. So, starting with at least this point where Nagarjuna contradicts the Buddha, we must have some way to work around his logic, that is, assuming the Buddha of the suttas had superior logic, which sur...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 50
Views: 892

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

I personally think this is quite unlikely. However I am an orthodox Theravadin and have been looking into Nagarjuna's work and it seems to undercut pretty much everything while using things found in the suttas, particularly dependent origination. It proves nibbana and samsara are the same thing, wh...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:04 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 50
Views: 892

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Greetings, I would recommend reading "The Heretic Sage"... a short series of interviews with ven. Nanananda. I won't share it here, because it's probably not 100% appropriate to this section, but it's one of the few examples you will find of anyone knowledgeable in Theravada, responding to and refl...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:56 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 50
Views: 892

Re: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

Doodoot gave a summary and one point was that , according to Nargarjuna, there was nothing that is real, no sabhava. A rather unlikely 'truth' I would say, and in conflict with Theravada. Exactly my point. Thank you. Glad to know I'm not alone in noticing this. But if he used canonical reasoning, h...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:54 pm
Forum: Abhidhamma
Topic: Where in the Abhidhamma is nibbana stated to be extraneous and it's type of nama delineated?
Replies: 5
Views: 211

Re: Where in the Abhidhamma is nibbana stated to be extraneous and it's type of nama delineated?

The Abhidhamma ... says that nibbāna is extraneous to the body. -The Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw, On the Nature of Nibbana Obviously, nibbāna is extraneous to both the body and the mind. The four immaterial aggregates are called nama, "name," in the sense of bending (namana) because they bend towards ...
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:47 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness?
Replies: 6
Views: 204

Re: Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness?

robertk wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:21 am
Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness
Sujin Boriharnwanaket.

Buddhaghosa and
all Theravada Commentators or Tika writers from the past.
Thank you
by zan
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:46 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness?
Replies: 6
Views: 204

Re: Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness?

Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness? Who are some others? I think what you describe is what's taught by virtually all teachers in traditions where the Abhidhamma and commentaries supply the theoretical underpinnings for bhāvanā. Fo...
by zan
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:05 pm
Forum: Abhidhamma
Topic: Where in the Abhidhamma is nibbana stated to be extraneous and it's type of nama delineated?
Replies: 5
Views: 211

Where in the Abhidhamma is nibbana stated to be extraneous and it's type of nama delineated?

The Abhidhamma ... says that nibbāna is extraneous to the body. -The Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw, On the Nature of Nibbana The four immaterial aggregates are called nama, "name," in the sense of bending (namana) because they bend towards the object in the act of cognizing it. They are also called nama...
by zan
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:23 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness?
Replies: 6
Views: 204

Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness?

Teachers who teach/taught that parinibbana/anupadisesa nibbana is the end of all forms of consciousness? Off the top of my head: Bhikkhu Sujato: The Buddha was so very very emphatic that the end of dependent origination was the end of all forms of consciousness. -Bhikkhu Sujato, Nibbana is Not Vinna...
by zan
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:42 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 444

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

Thank you Venerable. Do you know of where I might find the Ajahn Chah quotes that may indicate acceptance of momentariness? Go to the Ajahn Chah page at Access to Insight. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/index.html The very last item is a 700-page pdf file of his talks. Just download ...
by zan
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:50 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 444

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

Thank you venerable. Perhaps something as close as possible to this, then? The most orthodox but non flux accepting teachers? Are Ajahn Chah or Ajahn Brahm good possibilities? Ajahn Brahm is a sutta-based Buddhist who has no liking for the Abhidhamma. He differs from most others of this persuasion ...
by zan
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:45 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 444

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

Does anyone know of any teachers who are classical orthodox Theravada for the most part but reject flux or momentariness? I don't think it's possible. In classical Theravāda momentarism is a fundamental component of the commentarial apparatus and underscores nearly everything. Even Vinaya rules, fo...
by zan
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:57 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?
Replies: 50
Views: 892

Is classical Theravada mostly proven false by Nagarjuna?

I personally think this is quite unlikely. However I am an orthodox Theravadin and have been looking into Nagarjuna's work and it seems to undercut pretty much everything while using things found in the suttas, particularly dependent origination. It proves nibbana and samsara are the same thing, whi...
by zan
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:48 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?
Replies: 42
Views: 718

Re: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?

Is there such a sutta? I think my previous post is conclusive about how the terms "dependent origination" and "dependently originated" were used by the Lord Buddha. However, to give Nargajuna some hope in this debate, I should post the 1 omitted sutta from the original 11 to examine what it might m...