Search found 786 matches

by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:30 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

It pays to investigate what we mean and what the Buddha said about 'existing'. There is a view of the world as being composed of discrete entities, discrete selves, somehow interacting, but remaining separate. A view where there is a Dan who has such-and-such characteristics, such-and-such possessi...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:17 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Rules for this thread: ... 3.) Stay in the suttas. Using bizarre theories or science fiction are not allowed as they do not exist in the suttas. 4.) Making everything imaginary does not solve the issue as the mind, and therefore imagination, is dependently originated too, and so does not ultimately...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:04 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

if nothing exists independently there is no single thing, How does that follow? The fact that, say, trees exist dependent on soil, water, sunlight, the seeds from which they grew, etc., surely doesn't mean that no single tree exists. It just means that no tree is its own cause and no tree exists in...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:59 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

if nothing exists independently there is no single thing, How does that follow? The fact that, say, trees exist dependent on soil, water, sunlight, the seeds from which they grew, etc., surely doesn't mean that no single tree exists. It just means that no tree is its own cause and no tree exists in...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:03 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?
Replies: 68
Views: 1926

Re: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?

I don't know what you mean by "a vague text... It is a vague text because it is subject to interpretation and particularly your misinterpretation. There are many texts that refute your interpretation. Dun laugh at me like this. I really cannot tell them apart. My theory is: 1. The body is "conditon...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:46 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

That said here we are: If everything, without exception, is dependently originated, nothing has any independent existence, there is no single thing. Everything depends on something else to exist. If there is no single thing then obviously there cannot be many things. So literally nothing whatsoever...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:38 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Could you explain what "pure nihilism" means? What about this? ‘The ascetic Gotama is an exterminator . He advocates the annihilation, eradication and obliteration of an existing being.’ ‘ venayiko samaṇo gotamo, sato sattassa ucchedaṃ vināsaṃ vibhavaṃ paññāpetī’ti. https://suttacentral.net/mn22/en...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:36 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Or there's some other explanation that truly avoids this extreme. Truly, not just saying that extreme should be avoided, but solving the issue satisfactorily. Teaching teaches via the “ middle way ” which avoids the extremes.....to allow one to escape. To truly solve it, one must reach the uncondit...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:32 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

SarathW wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:20 pm
Could you explain what "pure nihilism" means?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism
Pure nihilism means absolutely nothing exists.
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:31 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

If everything, without exception, is dependently originated, nothing has any independent existence, there is no single thing. Everything depends on something else to exist. If there is no single thing then obviously there cannot be many things. In my opinion, this premise is correct (depending upon...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:20 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

If everything is dependently originated, dependent origination doesn't exist. It cancels itself out. Can you explain how your first statement "If everything is dependently originated" leads to the conclusion "dependent origination doesn't exist"? I am guessing, in this view realising nothing exists...
by zan
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

If everything, without exception , is dependently originated, nothing has any independent existence, there is no single thing. Everything depends on something else to exist. When you begin with a wrong assumption, everything you build on it would be equally wrong. Where did the Buddha ever mentione...
by zan
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:13 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Basically to restate the issue: dependent origination, if applied to everything invalidates dependent origination by making it non existent. It destroys itself and makes itself irrelevant. If everything is dependently originated, dependent origination doesn't exist. It cancels itself out. Buddhism i...
by zan
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:09 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

It almost seems like this is a wild extrapolation that the Buddha never intended and likely would have discouraged. I know of no sutta where the Buddha attempts to explain literally everything as part of dependent origination, itself directly focused on a being's existence and cessation. How did it ...
by zan
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:56 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1698

Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Rules for this thread: 1.) No invoking some quasi scientific interpretation of quantum mechanics to prove dependent origination is true. One could just as easily disprove it using the same method. Further the Buddha was not talking about the subatomic world. He literally never talked about this. He ...