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by Zom
Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:03 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

Okay, read AN 9.35 closer.
by Zom
Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:47 am
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

Actually... you don't. And the sutta I referenced seems to disprove your point. That's not to say that they can't be accessed via the fourth jhana but it doesn't appear to be a necessity. I told you already, one can't simply jump into arupa-attainments ignoring previous 4 jhanas. Pali Canon has eno...
by Zom
Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:16 am
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

Note that the Infinitude of space, consciousness, nothingness and neither perception nor non-perception are all perceptions accessed via perception of earth with no mention of the four jhanas. I already commented on this above. Not mentioning jhanas does not mean you don't need them. Actually you do.
by Zom
Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:10 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

What you claimed is spectacular. That the kasinas are application of jhana practice alone, which implies that kasina cannot be practice pre-jhana which then with step by step training going into jhana. And that somehow a few century after Buddha, monks and nuns misunderstood the Buddha, going bat c...
by Zom
Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:30 am
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

I'm not denying that are a few references to colour kasinas in the suttas but the validity of those references is a bit iffy Again, one should have jhanic experience to express such doubts. Interesting thing about those 4 colors mentioned is that prism breaks white light into spectrum that has othe...
by Zom
Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:43 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

Where is that? I wouldn’t say they are rather clear. Rather they are quite obscure in the suttas. In the very description of kasinas themselves. If the kasinas are developed in Jhana, how can one be aware of the gross physical body? One does not exclude the other. Depends on focus of perception, as...
by Zom
Thu Mar 14, 2024 6:23 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

Kasina was mentioned in the Sutta but the actual practice was kind of not clear to me. The most comprehensive sources I know were from Visuddhi/Vimutti-magga. So, please elaborate your take in detail and share the references from the Pali canon, if possible the actual practice itself and not just w...
by Zom
Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:14 am
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

You just read MN 121 in a wrong way. It doesn't say you enter jhana on perception of forest/earth. It says you enter this way 1st arupa attainment. But to do this, you have to be in 4th jhana already. You can't simply jump into arupa from simple restricted ordinary consiousness (see AN 9.35). This i...
by Zom
Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:12 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

Personally I don't think it matters if you gain the perception in a grove or via a clay disc, as long as the result is the same. When I practice for the fire Kasiṇa i focus on a candle flame, trying to ignore everything else. This is incorrect method. Kasina is a non-dual perception inside jhana, n...
by Zom
Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:11 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: Origins of Kasina Meditation?
Replies: 43
Views: 950

Re: Origins of Kasina Meditation?

In Pali canon kasinas are not devices. They are states of mind in jhanic samadhi. Since that is so, "kasina meditation" was just an aspect of jhanic meditation, something to be done when jhanas are already attained. Centuries later someone introduced kasinas as physical disks, which is obv...
by Zom
Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:51 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The relationship between kamma and sankharas
Replies: 12
Views: 260

Re: The relationship between kamma and sankharas

Is there any part in the Pali Canon that discusses the aspect of karma I'm talking about though? I'm afraid, yes. At least, to some extent. “Here, headman, some teacher holds such a doctrine and view as this: ‘Anyone at all who destroys life … who takes what is not given … who engages in sexual mis...
by Zom
Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:43 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Abandoning pleasure & pain
Replies: 102
Views: 3030

Re: Abandoning pleasure & pain

Which sutta says the body disappears in fourth jhana?
Not body. In-breath and out-breath.
Suttas? A lot, different. SN 36.11 just as an example.
by Zom
Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:11 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Abandoning pleasure & pain
Replies: 102
Views: 3030

Re: Abandoning pleasure & pain

So the body is dead then.
No.
by Zom
Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:14 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Abandoning pleasure & pain
Replies: 102
Views: 3030

Re: Abandoning pleasure & pain

One doesn't follow the sign of a breath.
This is incorrect understanding. When texts say "there is no breath", it means there is none. And not that you simply don't pay attention. 8-)
by Zom
Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:10 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Abandoning pleasure & pain
Replies: 102
Views: 3030

Re: Abandoning pleasure & pain

Suttas are quite clear that you have bodily experience in jhanas. Only in 1st arupa-attainment it is gone.