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by Dinsdale
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?
Replies: 18
Views: 291

Re: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?

OK, here's your example: https://suttacentral.net/sn12.61/en/sujato#5.2--5.3 ‘When this exists, that is; due to the arising of this, that arises. ‘iti imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti, imassuppādā idaṃ uppajjati; When this doesn’t exist, that is not; due to the cessation of this, that ceases. That is: imasmi...
by Dinsdale
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:16 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: The original meaning of "viññāṇa"
Replies: 16
Views: 349

Re: The original meaning of "viññāṇa"

Am I right in thinking that the "vi" of "vinnana" means "two", and denotes a duality?
by Dinsdale
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:51 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?
Replies: 18
Views: 291

Re: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?

I continue to struggle to comprehend why folks view the descriptions of birth, aging and death in DO as "physical". Simply because they are described in physical terms in the suttas, specifically in SN12.2 and MN9. Perhaps you don't want to accept this because it undermines your personal interpreta...
by Dinsdale
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:35 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?
Replies: 18
Views: 291

Re: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?

There are various ways of understanding the conditionality involved in DO, but I think the two most important ones are those described in the suttas, ie snychronous ( "While this nidana is present, then that nidana is present..." ) and sequential ( "When this nidana arises, then that nidana arises....
by Dinsdale
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:31 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?
Replies: 18
Views: 291

Re: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?

There are, obviously, different interpretations of dependent origination, but this diagram perhaps suggests that we should not think of it a step-by-step process. There are various ways of understanding the conditionality involved in DO, but I think the two most important ones are those described i...
by Dinsdale
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:15 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

Retro is, of course presenting his interpretation, which is influenced by Vens Nanananda and Nanavira. But do note that in the sutta you quoted one of the perversions is: 'Self' with regard to not-self is a perversion of perception, a perversion of mind, a perversion of view. So, if we accept the i...
by Dinsdale
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:40 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

Thus, all the five aggregates are actually sankharas, whether they are assigned to the sankhara aggregate or one of the other four. I think you are muddying the water by conflating these two quite distinct uses of "sankhara". Again it's a case of square pegs and round holes, trying to force one mea...
by Dinsdale
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:26 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?
Replies: 18
Views: 291

Re: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?

SarathW wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:39 am
All limbs on DO not separable from each other. They all one just like we are now.
They are all part of a process or state, in the same way that the aggregates are all part of a process or state. However we can look at them as individual aspects of the whole.
by Dinsdale
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:23 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?
Replies: 18
Views: 291

Re: Is Dependent Origination about Nama,Rupa or Nama-Rupa?

One can't talk about namarupa in dependent origination until you are able to define correctly what it means . Here is the nidana "definition" of nama-rupa from SN12.2: "And what is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name. The four great elements, and t...
by Dinsdale
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:14 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

Have you read Buddhadasa's essay on the two ways of interpretation? One is people language, the other is dhamma language. The difference in interpretation according to him lies in the difference between these two ways of speaking. I have, but didn't find him convincing on this point - he just makes...
by Dinsdale
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:12 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

One thing is as Dinsdale said . How is it possible to explain dependent origination when everyone has different understanding and interpretation such as sankhara , consciousness , namarupa etc etc and express and present it ? Indeed, and as I observed, most DO suttas don't actually describe a mutua...
by Dinsdale
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:39 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:07 am
In cessation mode, it explains that when that ignorant misunderstanding ceases, "origination" based upon it ceases too.
DO in cessation mode also means the cessation of physical birth, aging and death. That is problematic for some interpretations.
by Dinsdale
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:36 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

Basically, because of ignorance, we fabricate dhammas. There is consciousness of that which is fabricated, and this dhamma is garnished with name-and-form, and consciousness grasps the name-and-form, and so on... I see three obvious problems with this interpretation: 1. Most DO suttas don't describ...
by Dinsdale
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:34 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

With all due respect to Sarath, the problems arise because he takes commentarial Abhidhamma notions (such as that of rupa as "materiality", and nama as "mentality") and tries to super-impose them over the suttas, where rupa actually means "form", and "nama" is as described as being exclusive of vin...
by Dinsdale
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:30 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bundles of reeds simile.
Replies: 114
Views: 1224

Re: Bundles of reeds simile.

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:45 pm
Are emptiness and Anatta the same?
It's really a matter of scope, for example the Heart Sutra starts with the emptiness of the five aggregates ( anatta ), and then broadens the application to include other phenomena.