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by Dinsdale
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:20 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

:thumbsup: Yes, this is my understanding, and - whether true or not! - you have expressed it very well. What I'm less clear about is how these modes apply to the dependent relationship between specific nidanas. I think both modes could be applied in some cases. I don't see why not. Your own "clouds...
by Dinsdale
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:07 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

DNS wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:26 pm
Will that make it complete? Are there any other options missing before I update it?
Thanks, that is more comprehensive.

My current option is "My brain hurts!" :jumping:

by Dinsdale
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:03 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

the simultaneity of it is in the actual text, i don't know how it could be more clear "when this is, this is" "when this isn't, this isn't" this does not become false or invalid in the 2nd & 4th lines, it is the same principle applied to arising/ceasing, coming/going, as opposed to existence/nonexi...
by Dinsdale
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:13 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

the simultaneity of it is in the actual text, i don't know how it could be more clear "when this is, this is" "when this isn't, this isn't" this does not become false or invalid in the 2nd & 4th lines, it is the same principle applied to arising/ceasing, coming/going, as opposed to existence/nonexi...
by Dinsdale
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:07 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

If DO is timeless, how can it explain: 1) change? (after all "change" requires time. Sorry for the somewhat trivial question...) 2) that "physical ageing and death" is conditioned by "physical birth"? Good questions. DO seems basically to be about arising and ceasing in dependence upon conditions, ...
by Dinsdale
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:00 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

your sequential translation is not in the actual pāli nor is there any distinction between two modes in the actual pāli Two modes of conditionality are described. They are differently phrased in both the original Pali, and in English translations. The first mode is contemporaneous ( B is present wh...
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:01 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

anyway the problem is that interpreting it sequentially explicitly contradicts line 3 & 4 as it would be equivalent to saying that one link can & does exist while the other does not, or that it can & does not exist while the other does. if you think that saṅkhārā arises after ignorance & not simult...
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:57 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

dylanj wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:55 am
yes i know the difference. i have the whole quartet memorized in pali & english
So can you explain what you think the difference actually is between these two modes of conditionality?
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:55 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

why would it take time for something to cease when its requisite condition ceases? if "when this is, this is" & "when this isn't, this isn't" is true of the two links then the moment one is, the other is, & the moment one isn't, the other isn't You are still missing the distinction between the two ...
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:53 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

It's actually "when this arises, this arises". "imassuppādā idaṁ uppajjati", not "imassuppādā etaṁ uppajjati" there's nothing sequential here, in fact it's the opposite. "when", not "after". where there is one link there is the other. the only reason they go in order is to indicate the closeness of...
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:40 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

Could you elaborate on "simultaneous"? And how does this work with the conditionality mode of "When this arises, that arises", which involves a sequence over time? It's actually "when this arises, this arises". "imassuppādā idaṁ uppajjati", not "imassuppādā etaṁ uppajjati" there's nothing sequentia...
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:29 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

dylanj wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:19 am
simultaneous, non-linear
Could you elaborate on "simultaneous"? And how does this work with the conditionality mode of "When this arises, that arises", which involves a sequence over time?
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:25 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is Nibbana cessation of being?
Replies: 33
Views: 1075

Re: Is Nibbana cessation of being?

being is defined in suttas by craving, delight Bhava ( existence or becoming in the three realms ) arises in dependence upon upādāna ( clinging ), which in turn arises in dependence upon tanha ( craving ). Cessation of tanha ( craving ) does not necessarily mean the simultaneous cessation of bhava ...
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:17 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

Circle5 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:58 am
So the idea that Buddha meant momentary arising and death of phenomena instead of physical birth and physical death is pretty ridiculous to any informed buddhist
I wouldn't say "ridiculous", just unsupported by what the suttas actually describe.
by Dinsdale
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:13 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

By making DO one life model only or moment-to-moment only; an ulterior motive could be to circumvent rebirth teachings (not saying that all who hold that view do that). I think it can be a factor, and the interpretation we personally prefer is not necessarily the one which is best supported by what...
by Dinsdale
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:42 am
Forum: News, Current Events & Politics
Topic: What is Facebook?
Replies: 40
Views: 821

Re: What is Facebook?

Justsit wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:40 pm
Now it's confirmed that Big Brother really is watching. Facebook tracks you even if you’re not a user
When will Facebook become self-aware, and decide that humans are a pest to be got rid of? :tongue:
by Dinsdale
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:10 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

For example claiming that "birth" or "aging and death" should be understood in a momentary sense. “And what, bhikkhus, is aging-and-death? The aging of the various beings in the various orders of beings, their growing old, brokenness of teeth, greyness of hair, wrinkling of skin, decline of vitalit...
by Dinsdale
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:06 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

Could we please add "multiple lives model" to the poll? As previously explained, I believe this is what the nidana "definitions" of becoming and birth actually support.
by Dinsdale
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:06 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 149
Views: 1549

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

DNS wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 pm
And the Abhidhamma discusses momentary mental events in detail, which makes sense from our own analysis of thoughts and their fleeting nature.
I think there is reference to mind moments, but not to a moment-to-moment interpretation of DO.
by Dinsdale
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:35 am
Forum: Sīla
Topic: Television non-watchers - have you noticed positive effects?
Replies: 28
Views: 868

Re: Television non-watchers - have you noticed positive effects?

Zom wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:00 am
...I'd rather ask: "Internet non-users - have you noticed positive effects?" :lol:
And how about "I"Phone users, who often look like zombies? :tongue: