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by mikenz66
Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:58 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9
Replies: 59
Views: 705

Re: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:42 pm
In this way the system itself can be understood to be unchanging while the states of the system are changing, therefore one can say that the changing gains a footing in the unchanging. ...
OK, thanks for explaining your model!

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:23 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9
Replies: 59
Views: 705

Re: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9

OK, but can you explain in your own words what Ven Thanissaro's translation means? As I said, I cannot understand it, apart from in terms of the simile in his footnote, so I'm not sure why you find it a preferable translation to the the translations of other translators.

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:07 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9
Replies: 59
Views: 705

Re: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9

That (at least your first sentence) is essentially how I understand the other translations. I have no idea how to understand Ven Thanissaro's translation, other than via the simile that he gives in his footnote. Perhaps we are simply understanding the English in these translations differently. :hear...
by mikenz66
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:35 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9
Replies: 59
Views: 705

Re: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9

I have already addressed that his own personal interpretation presented in his note to AN10.58 finds little support given that he claims it to be associated with non-return and his own personal views on the Non-made are of relatively little interest here. But the simile given in his note seems to b...
by mikenz66
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:14 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9
Replies: 59
Views: 705

Re: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9

Now if AN10.58 is taken to be referring to Aggregates they definitely do not plunge into the Deathless because the 8FNP leads to cessation of aggregates and by means of cessation the 3rd Noble Truth is realized and that which ceases does not plunge into anything. It is extremely unlikely imo that t...
by mikenz66
Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:27 pm
Forum: Discovering Theravāda
Topic: Jhanas and Nirvana
Replies: 15
Views: 266

Re: Jhanas and Nirvana

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:42 pm
budo wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:13 am
The jhanas are required for anything above sotapanna.
Hi Sutta support for this friend?
There is an extensive analysis here: https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books10/Bhi ... ple%20.htm

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:05 am
Forum: Study Group
Topic: SN 20.6 Dhanuggaha Sutta. The Archers.
Replies: 4
Views: 97

Re: SN 20.6 Dhanuggaha Sutta. The Archers.

Here are some related suttas suggested by Thanissaro Bhikkhu: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN20_6.html

SN2.19; AN4.113; AN5.78; AN6.19; AN6.20; AN7.74 (7.70); AN10.15; Iti23; Snp4.6

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:50 pm
Forum: Study Group
Topic: SN 20.6 Dhanuggaha Sutta. The Archers.
Replies: 4
Views: 97

Re: SN 20.6 Dhanuggaha Sutta. The Archers.

Bhikkhu Bodhi's notes: “Bhikkhus, suppose there were four firm-bowed archers, [266] trained, dexterous, experienced, standing in each of the four directions. This sutta also appears in the introduction to Ja No. 476, which turns upon the same theme. In this story the Bodhisatta, in his incarnation a...
by mikenz66
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:46 pm
Forum: Study Group
Topic: SN 20.6 Dhanuggaha Sutta. The Archers.
Replies: 4
Views: 97

SN 20.6 Dhanuggaha Sutta. The Archers.

SN 20.6 Dhanuggaha Sutta. The Archers. Translated by Bhikkhu Sujato Only a speedster could catch arrows in flight, yet conditioned phenomena perish faster than that. https://suttacentral.net/sn20.6 At Sāvatthī. “Mendicants, suppose there were four well-trained expert archers with strong bows standi...
by mikenz66
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:59 pm
Forum: Discovering Theravāda
Topic: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika
Replies: 12
Views: 1520

Re: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Hi tbeaudoin, (3) Dhammayut tried to go back to a more accurate pronunciation and recitation of the Indic language Pali: their chanting style is called "Magadha" (named after a region in India), whereas Mahanikaya chants in a style called "Samyoga" (which means "with links/linked"). ... I'm not an e...
by mikenz66
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:34 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is it possible to have a three aggregate only?
Replies: 6
Views: 125

Re: Is it possible to have a three aggregate only?

What model do you have of the aggregates? Do you see them as building blocks or descriptions of experience?

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:41 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9
Replies: 59
Views: 705

Re: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9

RV Could you clarify whether it is BB or the other person who you think is being outrageous? https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32419&p=481446#p481438 The other oerson sounds confused to me... Mike I think Bhikkhu Bodhi is confused but i am not actually outraged, i just think he is wrong....
by mikenz66
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:37 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which category belong to for the cessation of feeling perception ?
Replies: 223
Views: 2852

Re: Which category belong to for the cessation of feeling perception ?

I agree with that you said about not of the flesh jhana but, The sutta central passage what i think is rupa jhana Yes, it is referred to as rupa jhana (though I'm not sure that term exists in the suttas, it may be a later development), but rupa (form) is not the same as sāmisā (of the flesh). So ru...
by mikenz66
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:04 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9
Replies: 59
Views: 705

Re: The real meaning of AN10.58 enumeration #9

RV

Could you clarify whether it is BB or the other person who you think is being outrageous? viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32419&p=481446#p481438 The other oerson sounds confused to me...

Mike