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by mikenz66
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:41 pm
Forum: Lounge
Topic: Circle5 obsessively labelling other people Solipsists
Replies: 77
Views: 628

Re: Circle5 obsessively labelling other people Solipsists

No point in getting angry with him, he's just a product of your mind... :thinking:

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:00 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Internal / External - significance and meaning
Replies: 33
Views: 471

Re: Internal / External - significance and meaning

.... I don't know much about Nanananda. I just know that I have a hard time with his "understanding" of the "vortex". Something he relates to the internal & the external. ... I suggest, as I have before, listening to Ven Analayo's talks, which I found made it easier to cut though his archaic Sinhal...
by mikenz66
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:37 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: The Great Jhana Debate

btw: Appreciating the difference between appana-samādhi (absorbed jhāna ) vipassana-khanika-samādhi (“momentary concentration") could help cut through the confusion as to whether insight happens afterwards (the former), or during (the latter) type of samādhi . Yes, I guess we might as well use the ...
by mikenz66
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: The Great Jhana Debate

It certainly is curious that the description of this key aspect of the path is described in the suttas in such a way that allows such different interpretations: ... Yes! Curious and for me sometimes disheartening, as very intelligent, well equipped and well meaning individuals come to different con...
by mikenz66
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:07 am
Forum: Study Group
Topic: SN 16.10 Bhikkhunūupassaya Sutta. The Bhikkhunīs’ Quarters.
Replies: 16
Views: 263

Re: SN 16.10 Bhikkhunūupassaya Sutta. The Bhikkhunīs’ Quarters.

binocular wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:25 am
...
Good analysis binocular!

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:53 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: The Great Jhana Debate

I still don't see the use of the term "sutta jhana". From my reading (and listening to talks) I see little difference in depth between the depth of jhana described by Vens Brahm/Analayo/Sujato/etc and the Visuddhimagga. Whereas the difference between them and Ven Vimalaramsi, for example, is huge. I...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:48 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: The Great Jhana Debate

What I find myself questioning are the very terms of the debate. :thinking: It certainly is curious that the description of this key aspect of the path is described in the suttas in such a way that allows such different interpretations: “And what, bhikkhus, is right concentration? Here, bhikkhus, s...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:34 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Internal / External - significance and meaning
Replies: 33
Views: 471

Re: Internal / External - significance and meaning

Internal/external refers to the commonsense distinctions between self/other, internal environment/external environment, organism/ecosystem, one's own body-mind and anything outside of that. And are one of the doorways to seeing the not-self nature of the elements... I simply don't see why this is s...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:26 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Internal / External - significance and meaning
Replies: 33
Views: 471

Re: Internal / External - significance and meaning

Hi TV. A slight asign on Ven Nananada's use of language: Nanananda translations are just interpreted to fit his own view: ... Actually, if you take the time to listen to Analayo's talks on the Nibbana Sermons, or look carefully at the translations, you'll see that the translations that he uses in th...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:43 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: three marks of conditioned dhammas: origination, presence, cessation
Replies: 10
Views: 142

Re: three marks of conditioned dhammas: origination, presence, cessation

Hi Phil,
phil wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:27 am
I was wondering about that. Was it first taught in the abhidhammattha-sangaha? ...
No, that's all in the Visuddhimagga (and presumably the commentaries that the VM summarizes). The abhidhammattha-sangaha is much later than the VM.

:heart:
Mike
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:46 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Hmm, I think we are talking at cross purposes. Quite apart from the summary given above, Ven Thanissaro (among others) certainly talks about being about hear and so on in jhana. Ven Brahm and others claim that that would not be real jhana. I'm not sure why you're not getting my point that different ...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:04 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: three marks of conditioned dhammas: origination, presence, cessation
Replies: 10
Views: 142

Re: three marks of conditioned dhammas: origination, presence, cessation

Hi Retro, 1. In the sutta above the arising, persistence, and subsiding are not measured in the infinitesimal small time periods used to categorise arising and falling of dhammas in Abhidhamma . The timeframes are more 'conventional', if you will. I suspect you mean the Commentaries. I am not aware ...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:00 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: Monks Average Meditation Routine

You seem to have missed my observation that a number of EBT enthusiasts (Analayo, Sujato, Brahm, etc) have a definition of jhana, derived from the suttas, that is similar in depth to the VM definition (not being able to hear when in jhana, and so on). I'm not nit picking you Mike, just sharing my c...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: The Great Jhana Debate

Sutta jhāna is what is described in the Suttas (obviously). This is still deep concentration where sounds and other external perceptions aren't present—but it isn't 1 in one million meditators who can reach jhāna, like described by Buddhaghosa regarding Visudhimagga jhānas. From this, I consider Su...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:19 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Better to kill oneself than to marry a "hideous widow": Thoughts on Nanavira's suicide
Replies: 68
Views: 910

Re: Better to kill oneself than to marry a "hideous widow": Thoughts on Nanavira's suicide

The only possible test is, therefore, whether they find those writings a useful exposition of the Dhamma that does not contradict the Suttas. And the only way to verify either is to become a sotapanna. There is literally no other qualification. Ultimately, yes. But one has to make a choice as to wh...
by mikenz66
Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:09 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: Monks Average Meditation Routine

HI Samseva, I don't think jhānas more in line with access concentration are considered jhāna. No, of course, they should not be. I was merely wondering aloud whether that might, perhaps, have happened in some cases. Visuddhimagga is less credible only due to being post-Canonical, but it is so strict...
by mikenz66
Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:06 pm
Forum: Study Group
Topic: SN 16.10 Bhikkhunūupassaya Sutta. The Bhikkhunīs’ Quarters.
Replies: 16
Views: 263

Re: SN 16.10 Bhikkhunūupassaya Sutta. The Bhikkhunīs’ Quarters.

Senior in what sense? Number of rains, or types of attainments? From the above DPPN link: Mahā-Kassapa Thera was one of the Buddha’s most eminent disciples, chief among those who upheld minute observances of form (dhutavādānaṃ).... Ānanda came to be known as Dhammabhaṇḍāgārika, owing to his skill i...
by mikenz66
Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:57 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Better to kill oneself than to marry a "hideous widow": Thoughts on Nanavira's suicide
Replies: 68
Views: 910

Re: Better to kill oneself than to marry a "hideous widow": Thoughts on Nanavira's suicide

Going back to Nanavira, since he only really became noticed a couple of decades after his death, we really have some difficulty evaluating him and his teachings in the normal ways recommended in the suttas, such as: “Here, Bhāradvāja, a bhikkhu may be living in dependence on some village or town. Th...
by mikenz66
Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:57 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: The Great Jhana Debate
Replies: 475
Views: 74319

Re: Monks Average Meditation Routine

A fair amount of people claim to have this or that jhana. Yet there are often big differences in how they describe it and how to get there with the most notable being between so-called Visuddhimagga style jhana (generally more deep) and sutta style jhana (generally more aware). And there are differ...