Search found 772 matches

by Circle5
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:07 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

So I am happy you raised this point because there are often a lot of questions about how it plays into a "timeless" interpretation. Clearly this sutta is incompatible with cessation in terms of cessation of experience , but if it isn't cessation of experience, what is it cessation of? Again, I'm go...
by Circle5
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:18 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

You have ignored the suttas I posted which clearly state an arahant attains Nibbana and remains conscious. And taken refuge in a dodgy sutta that has been discussed before. I return after I pack the vegetables in the fridge which have just been delivered. Please post a link to the ONE sutta you are...
by Circle5
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:00 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

I already posted suttas which you, similar to VBB, appear to choose to ignore. Since when did "nirodha" always mean "disappearing"? :roll: Again: Just a couple of suttas after DO: ‘When there is no ignorance, volitional formations do not come to be; with the cessation of ignorance comes cessation o...
by Circle5
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:47 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

After you edit, I see you didn't get that Bhikkhu Bodhi was arguing against, not for the 1-life, "structural, non-termporal, happening in every moment" interpretation of DO that of course leads to the problem of arahant consciousness dissapearing on the spot at 22:57 if ignorance ceased at 22:57.
by Circle5
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:37 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

How can two meanings now be more than two meanings? Since when did 2 = 3 or 2 = 4 or 2 = 5? Any pali dictionary will tell you that is has 2 meanings, by this meaning 2 main meanings and small deviations among those 2 main meanings. The fact that it is a broad word does not mean it has 10 meanings. ...
by Circle5
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:28 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

Sankhara is one of the most broad words in Pali, which has more than two meanings. Perfectly true, that was my point. The above is clearly wrong & misinformed. Since you have not read 10k pages of suttas, why would you post such error that can be refuted in 1 minute? Indeed, I have not read them al...
by Circle5
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:14 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

So go check out SN 22.55. Take a look at the Pali too. The pairs in DO/PS are saṅkhāra saṅkhata dhamma : volitional formation and that which is produced. Ven. Nv would say a determination and the determined thing. (Use whatever translation you like, it doesn't alter my point whatsoever.) So no matt...
by Circle5
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:35 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

Read carefully, he said there are descriptions in suttas, not explanations. Take the time to see his point of view before you jump to conclusions. 1) There are explanations in the suttas about volitional formations causing the descend of consciousness into the womb (rebirth). 2) This is of course i...
by Circle5
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:08 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

But my question was: what is the proximate, technical cause for consciousness descending into the womb in Nanavira view ? To my knowledge, he has no explanation for this and claims we are simply to take it on trust without any explanation and claims the Buddha had no explanation either. But Buddha ...
by Circle5
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:08 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

You keep accusing me of avoiding answering, but again, it seems like you want me to talk about bhavapaccayā jāti , how 'birth' depends on 'being', but you aren't asking correctly. You're under the impression that Ven. Nv thinks that 'being' is the cause for 'birth' and that is simply not correct. Y...
by Circle5
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:05 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

You said Nanavira does not reject rebirth like secular buddhist do, despite the 1 life interpretation of DO that he likes. I am asking you how does rebirth happen in his view ? And please no BS Does this sound like someone who rejects rebirth? To be a follower of the Buddha it is certainly necessar...
by Circle5
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:21 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

Why are you avoiding the question and playing silly games like this ? What's the point ? But ok, then I shall reformulate the question: What is the cause for consciousness to descend into the womb in Nanavira view ? Same answer. You're still asking the wrong question. You're trying to apply linear ...
by Circle5
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:47 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

What is the cause for biological birth in Nanavira view ? The birds and the bees. Why are you avoiding the question and playing silly games like this ? What's the point ? But ok, then I shall reformulate the question: What is the cause for consciousness to descend into the womb in Nanavira view ?
by Circle5
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:31 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

And you've again avoided to answer the question. As both me and B.Bodhi have shown, Nanavira considers that the proximate cause for biological birth is the puthujjana notions "I was born; I will age and die," or "My self was born; my self ages and dies." This is simply false and not supported by th...
by Circle5
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:17 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

Greetings, This existing, this exists; this arising, this arises; this not existing, this does not exist; this ceasing, this ceases’. :anjali: Metta, Paul. :) Are you aware in what context that was said ? :anjali: Ven. ~Naa.naviira implicitly attempts to marshal support for his non-temporal interpr...
by Circle5
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:42 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

No, it really isn't his position on rebirth , which is what you said above. This passage is about 'birth', not rebirth. You seem to be interchanging these terms at will. By deffinition, any physical birth happening happening in the context of buddhism is a rebirth. :coffee: That is a bold simplific...
by Circle5
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:34 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

the simultaneity of it is in the actual text, i don't know how it could be more clear "when this is, this is" "when this isn't, this isn't" this does not become false or invalid in the 2nd & 4th lines, it is the same principle applied to arising/ceasing, coming/going, as opposed to existence/nonexi...
by Circle5
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:48 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

No, it really isn't his position on rebirth , which is what you said above. This passage is about 'birth', not rebirth. You seem to be interchanging these terms at will. By deffinition, any physical birth happening happening in the context of buddhism is a rebirth. :coffee: This is an ages old argu...
by Circle5
Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:23 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

This is not his position at all. Really ? 10. Upādānapaccayā bhavo; bhavapaccayā jāti; jātipaccayā jarāmaranam... ('With holding as condition, being; with being as condition, birth; with birth as condition, ageing-&-death...') The fundamental upādāna or 'holding' is attavāda (see Majjhima ii,1 <M.i...
by Circle5
Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:00 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?
Replies: 206
Views: 2673

Re: Which view on DO resonates with you the most?

That is not Nanavira's position. I've edited the post before you answered. Buddha position is that volitional formations is the proximate cause for rebirth. Craving + belief in a self are the 2 distant causes for it. In Nanavira view, belief in a self is the proximate, technical cause of rebirth. T...