Search found 786 matches

by zan
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:06 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

I think anyone and everyone who sees the Theravada and/or the suttas as authoritative and argues that literally everything, without exception, is dependently originated needs to read Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika (aka Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way). In it, based on this premise, Nagarjuna ...
by zan
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:48 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Dispute between Abhidharma and Mahayana?
Replies: 25
Views: 660

Re: Dispute between Abhidharma and Mahayana?

Thanks! Do you know if this is the understanding of the Theravada Abhidhamma or commentary school? It is mentioned in the patisambhidhamagga [1] and in the commentary by Buddhaghosa (I remember reading it but don't remember where specifically) [2]. AFAIK abhidhamma does not uses the concept of empt...
by zan
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:11 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Dispute between Abhidharma and Mahayana?
Replies: 25
Views: 660

Re: Dispute between Abhidharma and Mahayana?

I believe in abhidhamma/commentary tradition, emptiness is defined as lacking sabhava (own characteristic) [1]. So for example, the element of hardness (pathavi) is not empty because it has its own characteristic which is hardness, while a person lacks its own characteristics, and instead is an agg...
by zan
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:05 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Dispute between Abhidharma and Mahayana?
Replies: 25
Views: 660

Dispute between Abhidharma and Mahayana?

In the commentary by Mark Siderits and Shoryu Katsura to their translation of the Mulamadhyamakakarika it is stated that the Abhidharmikas believed that only the person is empty and disputed the Mahayana view that all things are empty (full quote below). I assume they mean "empty" as in "dependently...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:41 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

I think it is a mistranslation or misunderstanding of Nagarjuna that leads one to think that he had asserted such a thing. In Madhyamaka teachings, it is very clear that what is denied is the "thing-ness" or reification - a view of the world as composed of discrete entities. Nothing is in and of it...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:47 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Hi, i was not asking about what the suttas says. What do these teachers say who teach that not even Dependant Origination exists. What result do they declare for those who don't realise this? (I hope you are not trying to avoid this question) Avoiding? Sorry. Disregard that part. No worries :smile:
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:18 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

I think it is a mistranslation or misunderstanding of Nagarjuna that leads one to think that he had asserted such a thing. In Madhyamaka teachings, it is very clear that what is denied is the "thing-ness" or reification - a view of the world as composed of discrete entities. Nothing is in and of it...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:14 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Dootdoot for the win in this other thread Thanks everybody. This solves it. Buddhism is not nihilism because DO does not necessarily apply to literally everything. Do any suttas support this view? In already posted MN 28, which says the five aggregates subject to clinging are dependently originated....
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:11 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?
Replies: 68
Views: 1895

Re: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?

Do any suttas support this view? In already posted MN 28, which says the five aggregates subject to clinging are dependently originated. SN 22.48 refers to two types of five aggregates: (i) mere aggregates; and (ii) aggregates subject to clinging. Therefore, it appears MN 28 says only aggregates su...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:07 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

Nagarjuna definitely did not teach nihilism. For the simple reason that nihilism asserts that 'nothing exist'. Whereas Nagarjuna disproved or undermined the assertion that 'something exists'. The confusion comes from believing there are these only two alternatives. For me, the solutions is to shift...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:51 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

There is no one, nor many. Just processes, doings. It's the tendency to think in terms of nouns that leads to problems, not the actual happenings. You don't need 'a fire' in order to burn, just burning. And burning stands for a nexus of numerous processes, which extend finally to everything. Thank ...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:50 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

... Further this is absolutely not my fabrication. I would never come up with such an extreme idea. This is something that was thought up by Buddhist thinkers millennia ago. I practiced and studied Buddhism for twenty years before I came across this idea and really understood it. I wish I was smart...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:34 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

If no single thing exists independently, then there are not many things, as without one, there cannot be many. So nothing exists. I do not like this! I think it is not what the Buddha taught but a wild extrapolation and misunderstanding of what he taught. Nonetheless, without reinterpreting DO to b...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:23 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

It pays to investigate what we mean and what the Buddha said about 'existing'. There is a view of the world as being composed of discrete entities, discrete selves, somehow interacting, but remaining separate. A view where there is a Dan who has such-and-such characteristics, such-and-such possessi...
by zan
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:12 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?
Replies: 62
Views: 1635

Re: Either Buddhism is pure nihilism or dependent origination must be reinterpreted?

As to your second question, I personally don't think this is a tenable position within the suttas, so the question cannot be answered. Once the suttas become interpreted as showing all to be non existent there is literally nothing to discuss. Hi, i was not asking about what the suttas says. What do...