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something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval - Dhamma Wheel

something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:37 pm


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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:44 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:49 pm


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Prasadachitta
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Prasadachitta » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:01 pm

Last edited by Prasadachitta on Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

Shonin
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Shonin » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:04 pm

:popcorn:

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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:08 pm

I don't see why an argument against Nyanavira's passage requires my input. I'm not here to defend him, I'm here to watch you dissect his argument with logic and reasoning. If and when you do, then perhaps I can contribute something useful.

Cheers
Jack
Last edited by BlackBird on Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:09 pm


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Ytrog
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Ytrog » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:11 pm


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Prasadachitta
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Prasadachitta » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:15 pm

I dont think I need to disect why logical reasoning based on assertions as a way to see if any ultimate asserstions can be made is a problematic venture.


:popcorn:
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:17 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:19 pm


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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:20 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:21 pm


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Ytrog
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Ytrog » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:31 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:49 pm

I find it a little unfortunate how various personal letters that presumably made sense in the context that Ven Nanavira wrote them have taken on a life of their own. Reading the extract that Jack quoted I honestly can't figure out what he's getting at well enough to even evaluate the argument.

However, these questions surrounding anicca and continuity are not new and have been argued about by scholars ancient and modern. As I understand it, the Sarvarstivardin interpretation of the existence of dharmas in the past, present, and future, was an attempt to deal with this sort of issue. The Sautranikas, on the other hand, promoted the sort of "radical momentariness" that Ven N seems to be talking about. The Theravada concept of Bhavanga "solves" the problem of continuity vs change in a different way... See pages 220-223 of Gethin's "Foundations of Buddhism" for a discussion of these arguments on the level I understand it...

:anjali:
Mike

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beeblebrox
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:17 pm

Last edited by beeblebrox on Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:34 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:47 pm

Just to reiterate, the reason I posted the quote was in response to the idea that Mahayana and Theravada are seperate religions. I propose that on the face of things, this is fine, but when you get down to the deeper doctrine, they are remarkably similar in some aspects. In others, they're vastly different. For example Nirvana, the Mahayanist conception of which I can make absolutely no sense of.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

Individual
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Individual » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:17 pm

Is this a debate over facts or a debate over definitions?
The best things in life aren't things.


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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:25 pm



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