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the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
nathan
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby nathan » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:05 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

rowyourboat
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:40 am

The range of jhana and the range of a Buddha is 'acinteyya' or 'unthinkinkable'. It is not possible to apply logical abhidhammic analysis to these phenomena beyond a certain level.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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sukhamanveti
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby sukhamanveti » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:32 pm

Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

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robertk
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby robertk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:49 am

[quote="sukhamanveti"][quote="robertk"]Dear Pt
Now I know that Thanissaro Bhikkhu is sometimes unorthodox, so I can understand your reaction, but when a first-rate scholar who knows the Tipitaka in Pali like Bhikkhu Bodhi writes (in the introduction to his translation of the Majjhima Nikaya), "even the more sophisticated view that Nibbana is merely the destruction of defilements and the extinction of existence cannot stand up under scrutiny,"* it seems to me that it might be worthwhile to consider this viewpoint, rather than to reject it out of hand.

You may be right when you say "all that remains is the bone fragments," but there is much more to the opposing view than you might think.

Metta,

Ed

Dear Ed
The view carries no more weight with me than if you told me that Martians were in Halley's Comet and will take me to eternal bliss in another galaxy. I understand the view thanissaro puts about well enough to know that it is eternalism and certainly opposed to Theravada teachings.
Of course if one dismisses the Abhidhamma, many suttas, all the ancient Commentaries then one might be able to digest it without choking. But then why do that?

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sukhamanveti
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby sukhamanveti » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:37 pm

Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

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Jason
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby Jason » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:02 pm

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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clw_uk
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:17 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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sukhamanveti
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby sukhamanveti » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:44 am

Last edited by sukhamanveti on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

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sukhamanveti
Posts: 169
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby sukhamanveti » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:52 am

Last edited by sukhamanveti on Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

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sukhamanveti
Posts: 169
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Location: U.S.A.

Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby sukhamanveti » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:05 am

Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

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clw_uk
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby clw_uk » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:32 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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sukhamanveti
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby sukhamanveti » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:51 pm

Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby nathan » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:38 am

Seems to me that no matter what is said about this in an attempt to clarify the nature of nibbana here and now and of parinibbana one is bound to be accused of saying something indicative of either an eternalistic or annihilationistic doctrine. Seems to me that the Buddha sidestepped this by saying that he was not saying either of these things and leaving it at a thorough negation of the typical accusations. That is probably as far as any teacher can safely go with this. I think if people keep up the flack we will eventually not have teachers who are willing to say anything more than what the Buddha said, which is fine by me but is going to be tough for those who are looking for anything more than that. More could probably be said about it but not without suffering these accusations in one form or another. After a few years of experience with all of these shenanigans in forum discussions, if I am ever asked to teach anything about anything all I am probably going to do is recite directly from the suttas and say "best of luck and git crackin' ".
:broke:

metta & upekkha
:anjali:
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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fig tree
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby fig tree » Mon May 04, 2009 4:24 am


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Lazy_eye
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Nibbana vs. annihilation?

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:36 am


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ground
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Re: Nibbana vs. annihilation?

Postby ground » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:31 pm


Individual
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Re: Nibbana vs. annihilation?

Postby Individual » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:51 pm

Annihilation is the destruction of the conditioned state, the destruction of consciousness.

Nibbana is described as the Unconditioned, luminous consciousness without features.

A light of awareness underlying every experience, which becomes brighter and darker, to the degree that one follows the Noble Eightfold Path.
The best things in life aren't things.


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Jason
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Re: Nibbana vs. annihilation?

Postby Jason » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:04 pm

If you're interested, Lazy_eye, you can read some of my thoughts about nibbana and vinnanam anidassanam and .
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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Sunrise
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Re: Nibbana vs. annihilation?

Postby Sunrise » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:41 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Nibbana vs. annihilation?

Postby Alex123 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:44 pm

Last edited by Alex123 on Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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