Sāvakabuddha

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

Sāvakabuddha

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:55 am

Sāvakabuddhas (Pāli) is a rarely used term in Buddhism, identifying enlightened 'disciples of a Buddha' as Buddhas. These disciples are those enlightened individuals who gain Nirvāṇa by hearing the Dhamma as initially taught by a Sammasambuddha. They might also lead others to enlightenment, but cannot teach the Dhamma in a time or world where it has been forgotten, because they depend upon a tradition that stretches back to a Sammasambuddha.

When the term Sāvakabuddha is used, it refers to a third type of Buddha, other than the Sammasambuddha and Paccekabuddha. The term is not widely known. The term Savakabuddha is used in Theravadin commentaries,[1] and does not occur in the scriptures of the Pali Canon. Śrāvaka (Pāli: Sāvaka) literally means "one who hears", i.e. a Buddhist who follows the path to enlightenment by means of hearing the instructions of others.


so are these just arahanta? :shrug:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
jcsuperstar
 
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:58 am

Do you have any textual examples of this term being used?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18349
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:03 am

nope just what it says there....
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
jcsuperstar
 
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:10 am

opps forgot the note

^ Udana Commentary, tr Peter Masefield, volume I, 1994, Pali Text Society, page 94; Theragatha commentary, PTS edition, volume I, page 10, not yet translated, cited by Pruitt in Journal of the Pali Text Society, volume XXIX, forthcoming

and i found this

Śrāvaka (Skt.; Pali: sāvaka; means "hearer" or "follower") is a disciple of a Sammasambuddha. An enlightened disciple is generally called an arahant (Noble One) or ariya-sāvaka (Noble Disciple). (These terms have slightly varied meanings but can both be used to describe the enlightened disciple.) The Theravadin commentary to the Udana uses the term sāvaka-buddha (Pali; Skt. śrāvakabuddha) to describe the enlightened disciple[2] This third types of Buddha is also acknowledged in Tibetan Buddhism.[1]

Enlightened disciples attain Nirvana as do the two aforementioned types of Buddhas. After attaining enlightenment, disciples may also lead others to enlightenment. One can not become a disciple of a Buddha in a time or world where the teaching of the Buddha has been forgotten or has not been taught before, because this type of enlightenment is dependent on a tradition that stretches back to a Samyaksambuddha.

A rarely used word, anubuddha, was a term used by the Buddha in the Khuddakapatha[3] for those who become buddhas after being given instruction.

1^ a b Nonconceptual Cognition of Voidness by Shravaka, Pratyekabuddha, and Bodhisattva Aryas According to the Four Tibetan Traditions, by Alexander Berzin
2^ Udana Commentary, tr Peter Masefield, volume I, 1994, Pali Text Society, page 94).
3^ Ratanasutta:56. Also see AN 4.1, entitled "Anubuddha Sutta" (Thanissaro, 1997).
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
jcsuperstar
 
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:39 am

Sāvakabuddha is a commentarial term. The arahant in suttas is referred as buddha and tathagata and sugata, and sambodhi of the arahant is no different from that of the Buddha.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18349
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby Ben » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:27 am

Hi JC
I havent come across the term before. The Buddha's chief disciples were arahants, some of whom attained arahantship after listening to a discourse. With regards to Sariputta, he became a stream enterer after listening to a four-line verse from an arahant - before he met the Buddha. The chief disciples of the Buddha accumulated the merit to become chief disciples after making an aspiration at the foot of a previous Buddha. The Pali Canon indicates that the career of the Buddha-to-be and his chief disciples are closely intertwined until they reappear in their last life when the Bodhisatta gains sammasambodhi. At the point when the future chief disciples encounter the Dhamma or meet the Buddha, their paramitas are such that their progress on the path is incredibly rapid. According to Nyanaponika Thera, it is the result of aeons spent in perfecting the paramitas and developing merit.
As Tilt has said, the enlightenment of an arahant is no different to that of a Buddha.
Kind regards

Ben
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15785
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:44 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:Sāvakabuddhas (Pāli) is a rarely used term in Buddhism, identifying enlightened 'disciples of a Buddha' as Buddhas.
...
so are these just arahanta?

Yes.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
kc2dpt
 
Posts: 956
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby adeh » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:24 pm

Is there any mention of which Sutta in the Udaana the Commentary is refering to?
User avatar
adeh
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:42 pm
Location: Mexico City

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby piotr » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:48 pm

Hi,

adeh wrote:Is there any mention of which Sutta in the Udaana the Commentary is refering to?


It's Brāhmaṇa-sutta (Ud 1.5).
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
User avatar
piotr
 
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Khettadesa

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby adeh » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:10 pm

Muchas gracias.......
User avatar
adeh
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:42 pm
Location: Mexico City

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby male_robin » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:32 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:opps forgot the note

^ Udana Commentary, tr Peter Masefield, volume I, 1994, Pali Text Society, page 94; Theragatha commentary, PTS edition, volume I, page 10, not yet translated, cited by Pruitt in Journal of the Pali Text Society, volume XXIX, forthcoming

and i found this

Śrāvaka (Skt.; Pali: sāvaka; means "hearer" or "follower") is a disciple of a Sammasambuddha. An enlightened disciple is generally called an arahant (Noble One) or ariya-sāvaka (Noble Disciple). (These terms have slightly varied meanings but can both be used to describe the enlightened disciple.) The Theravadin commentary to the Udana uses the term sāvaka-buddha (Pali; Skt. śrāvakabuddha) to describe the enlightened disciple[2] This third types of Buddha is also acknowledged in Tibetan Buddhism.[1]

Enlightened disciples attain Nirvana as do the two aforementioned types of Buddhas. After attaining enlightenment, disciples may also lead others to enlightenment. One can not become a disciple of a Buddha in a time or world where the teaching of the Buddha has been forgotten or has not been taught before, because this type of enlightenment is dependent on a tradition that stretches back to a Samyaksambuddha.

A rarely used word, anubuddha, was a term used by the Buddha in the Khuddakapatha[3] for those who become buddhas after being given instruction.

1^ a b Nonconceptual Cognition of Voidness by Shravaka, Pratyekabuddha, and Bodhisattva Aryas According to the Four Tibetan Traditions, by Alexander Berzin
2^ Udana Commentary, tr Peter Masefield, volume I, 1994, Pali Text Society, page 94).
3^ Ratanasutta:56. Also see AN 4.1, entitled "Anubuddha Sutta" (Thanissaro, 1997).


A number of years ago, I was told that Anubuddha is the term used in the Suttas for the Savakabuddha. I have been unable to find any confirmation of this. I looked through all of the English translations and transliterated Pali versions I could find of the Khuddakapatha.

If the term is in the Ratana Sutta; I am not seeing it. See: http://www.bbt.org.sg/Articles/paritta_entr.html#_RATANASUTTA

I did find the words ananunbodha, anuBuddham, anubuddho, and anubuddha in a transliteration of AN 4.1 the Aubuddha Sutta. It appears that Thanissaro Bhikkhu is translated ananubodhi as 'not understanding'; and the various forms of anubuddha as 'understanding'. I suppose one could infer that the Anubuddha is one who has understood the Samma Sambuddha's instruction?

Other sources:
The Digital Dictionary of Buddhism (ddb) has satori 悟 as the sino-japanese translation of anubodha / anubuddha and gives "to awaken to" as a translation. http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xpr-ddb.pl?q=%E6%82%9F

Monier-Williams, linked from ddb, has "anubodha [ anubodha ]2[ anu-bodha ] m. recollection (1) an after-thought L. (2) reviving the scent of a faded perfume, replacing perfumes"
Last edited by male_robin on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
male_robin
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby rohana » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:28 am

I've heard of the term, and as mentioned it's used to denote simply what we call 'Arahants' - i.e. enlightened disciples of a Sammā Sambuddha. I can see the usefulness of it - categorizing those who have attained nibbāna as Sammā Sambuddhas, Paccēka Buddhas, and Arahants can seem pointless since Sammā Sambuddhas and Paccēka Buddhas are Arahants too. So the Sammā Sambuddha, Paccēka Buddha, and Sāvaka Buddha would seem like a more proper terminology for the three bōdhis.
"Delighting in existence, O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence, they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind."
- It. p 43
rohana
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:43 pm

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby male_robin » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:21 am

rohana wrote:I've heard of the term, and as mentioned it's used to denote simply what we call 'Arahants' - i.e. enlightened disciples of a Sammā Sambuddha. I can see the usefulness of it - categorizing those who have attained nibbāna as Sammā Sambuddhas, Paccēka Buddhas, and Arahants can seem pointless since Sammā Sambuddhas and Paccēka Buddhas are Arahants too. So the Sammā Sambuddha, Paccēka Buddha, and Sāvaka Buddha would seem like a more proper terminology for the three bōdhis.


That makes a lot of sense. How about Anubuddha as synonym for Savaka Buddha? According to the source cited above; the Buddha used the term Anubuddha in the Suttapitaka, and Savaka Buddha was used in a commentary. I looked at the suttas mentioned, but was unable to confirm that. AN 4.1 seems to use Anubuddha as term common to all three types of Buddhas; as the understanding attained by Arahants. Something like that. Can anyone can clear that up?

Anyway, my understanding is that Theravada views the awakening of three types of Buddhas as qualitatively the same. So, I gather that Samma Sambuddha, Paccekabuddha, and Savakabuddha and/or Anubuddha would only refer to the different paths taken to acquire Bodhi. All Arahants are Buddhas, and all Buddhas are Arahants?

(Note to moderator: If the below is deemed off topic for a Theravada board, please delete it and I'll understand.)

However, some early schools that no longer exist, such as Sarvastivada, viewed the awakening of the Arhat as incomplete and qualitatively inferior to that of the "completely enlightened" Samyak Sambodhi. That is confusing, since the Samyak Sambuddha is also an Arhat. One possible explanation is that they saw Arhat as a specific term for those who awaken via the Shravaka path; i.e. with Instruction from a Samyak Sambuddha, but it is also a general term applied to all 3 kinds of Buddhas. Another possible explanation is that they saw Arhatship as a sort of transitional stage; all Buddhas are Arhats, but not all Arhats are Buddhas.

The Sarvastivada view is the same as that of most Mahayana Schools. In fact, it may have been the original impetus for the founding of Mahayana -- some wanted to attain 'the complete awakening' instead of 'settling' for arhatship. The early Mahayana seems to have derived the Triyana (three vehicle) concept from the older concept of the three types of Buddhas. Some of the Discourses refer to Sammma Sambuddhas-to-be as Bodhisattas. The founders of what became Mahayana apparently conceived of a Bodhisattvayana as a vehicle to attain Samyak Sambodhi. According to some scholars, Mahayana was originally a synonym for the Bodhisattva-yana.

I see all kinds of logical problems with the view that complete or full Awakening is the exclusive attainment of Samyak Sambuddhas. For one, full enlightenment would not possible without common wordlings to teach. Moreover, taken to its logical conclusion, it would mean the Samyak Sambuddha, by providing Instruction leading to Arhatship, prevents his followers from ever becoming fully awakened Buddhas.
User avatar
male_robin
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:36 am

male_robin wrote: All Arahants are Buddhas, and all Buddhas are Arahants?
Here is an argumentative thread that covers much of this ground: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13925&hilit=sambodhi and this: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14143&p=208512&hilit=sambodhi#p208512

(Note to moderator: If the below is deemed off topic for a Theravada board, please delete it and I'll understand.)
It is appropriate to a Theravadin board.

bodhi
(from verbal root budhi, to awaken, to understand): awakenment, enlightenment, supreme knowledge. "(Through Bodhi) one awakens from the slumber or stupor (inflicted upon the mind) by the defilements (kilesa) and comprehends the Four Noble Truths (sacca)" (Com. to M. 10).

The enlightenment of a Buddha is called sammā-sambodhi, 'perfect enlightenment'. The faith (saddhā) of a lay follower of the Buddha is described as "he believes in the enlightenment of the Perfect One" (saddahati Tathāgatassa bodhim: M.53, A.III.2).

As components of the state of enlightenment and contributory factors to its achievement, are mentioned in the texts: the 7 factors of enlightenment (bojjhanga = bodhi-anga) and the 37 'things pertaining to enlightenment' (bodhipakkhiya-dhammā). In one of the later books of the Sutta-Pitaka, the Buddhavamsa, 10 bodhipācana-dhammā are mentioned, i.e. qualities that lead to the ripening of perfect enlightenment; these are the 10 perfections (pāramī).

There is a threefold classification of enlightenment:

1. that of a noble disciple (sāvaka-bodhi, q.v.). i.e. of an Arahat,
2. of an Independently Enlightened One (pacceka-bodhi, q.v.), and
3. of a Perfect Enlightened One (sammā-sambodhi).
This 3-fold division, however, is of later origin, and in this form it neither occurs in the canonical texts nor in the older Sutta commentaries. The closest approximation to it is found in a verse sutta which is probably of a comparatively later period, the Treasure Store Sutta (Nidhikkanda Sutta) of the Khuddakapātha, where the following 3 terms are mentioned in stanza 15: sāvaka-pāramī, pacceka-bodhi, buddha-bhūmi (see Khp. Tr., pp. 247f.).

The commentaries (e.g. to M., Buddhavamsa, Cariyapitaka) generally give a 4-fold explanation of the word bodhi:

1. the tree of enlightenment,
2. the holy path (ariya-magga),
3. Nibbāna,
4 omniscience (of the Buddha: sabbaññutā-ñāna).
As to (2), the commentaries quote Cula-Nidesa where bodhi is defined as the knowledge relating to the 4 paths (of Stream-entry, etc.; catūsu maggesu ñāna).

Neither in the canonical texts nor in the old commentaries is it stated that a follower of the Buddha may choose between the three kinds of enlightenment and aspire either to become a Buddha, a Pacceka-Buddha, or an Arahat-disciple. This conception of a choice between three aspirations is, however, frequently found in present-day Theravāda countries, e.g. in Sri Lanka. http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/b_f/bodhi.htm
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18349
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Sāvakabuddha

Postby male_robin » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:20 am

Thank you for the link tiltbillings. I'll enjoy reading that thread. It appears there is a diversity of views within Theravada. There is a lot of value in bouncing ideas off others in forums like this one. Every time I think I have sorted things out, I discover some error in my thinking. So i always fall back on non-attachment to fixed views.
User avatar
male_robin
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:32 pm


Return to Classical Theravāda

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests