Buddhism and Psychedelics

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:53 pm

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Viscid » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:29 am

I'd also like to point out this video of the Venerable Rahula of the Bhavana Society both describing his LSD experience and directly comparing that experience to what he experiences during meditation.



He says [@ 4:50] "... I learned that you can reach these kinds of states of consciousness through meditation."

Surely, if deep states of meditation and some aspects of the psychedelic experience are comparable, then LSD could be of use in easily inducing these states not achievable without considerable meditative practice.

That is, if the Ven. Rahula is not either lying, misguided or delusional.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby bodom » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:46 am

I have listened to many talks from Venerable Rahula on meditation practice and have read his book The Way to Peace and Happiness. Never once does he recommend using LSD and does not do so in the video either. He talks of tripping on acid to the point of almost drowning in the ocean and almost jumping off a balcony ledge, neither of which is very conducive to meditation practice. There is no endorsement for LSD use here.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Viscid » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:58 am

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

User avatar
Moth
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Moth » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:25 am

[I have come the realization that everyone was right, that Buddhism and Psychedelics are incompatible. Psychedelics are external, impermanent, and illegal]
Last edited by Moth on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
http://www.everythingspirals.com

Reductor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Reductor » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:50 am


User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Viscid » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:59 am

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

User avatar
Moth
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Moth » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:02 am

May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
http://www.everythingspirals.com

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Annapurna » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:05 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
EricJ
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby EricJ » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:01 pm

Regardless of whether or not certain meditative sensations can be replicated with psychedelic substances, here is the point: we don't meditate to feel these sensations or have visions. We meditate to gain liberation, and this includes detaching ourselves from the experiences of meditation. Creating experiences which are artificially similar to meditative sensations does not mean that such practices are skillful and lead to progression along the path. The sensations that arise in the course of meditation are the result of concentration and the refining of the mind. Psychedelic substances give rise to temporary, compounded feelings, not as a result of training in concentration, but through an artificial altering of brain chemistry. These experiences cease and can only be replicated through continued consumption of psychedelics; and, unlike training in samatha meditation, consumption of psychedelics has no Dhammic benefits in our daily lives. Samatha, unlike psychedelics, replaces sensual desire with mindfulness, concentration and renunciation, on and off the cushion. Consumption of psychedelics leaves one with craving for more psychedelic experiences, because hallucinations and feelings of joy and spaciness are fun.

I have taken a psychedelic called LSA before. I thought I would never feel dissatisfied again. I was wrong.
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3

Anicca
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:11 am
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Anicca » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:30 pm


User avatar
Laurens
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Laurens » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:02 pm

I don't think its encouraged in Buddhism. But don't let that stop you, you need to think for yourself...

Just because its not encouraged doesn't mean that's a strict doctrine that you have to follow. Carry on taking psychedelics and practising Buddhism, find out for yourself how useful or otherwise they are. Don't stop just cause someone else told you to, if they help you then they help you. Simple as.
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Carl Sagan

User avatar
Moth
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Moth » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:01 am

[deleted]
Last edited by Moth on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
http://www.everythingspirals.com

User avatar
octathlon
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby octathlon » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:15 am


User avatar
Laurens
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Laurens » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:55 pm

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Carl Sagan

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby bodom » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:02 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
Laurens
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Laurens » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:33 pm

I agree that the testimony of others is useful in learning, I guess it all depends how much you feel the need to take psychedelics. And perhaps rather than looking at the supposed spiritual benefits of the drugs, look at the counter arguments also, what do people say about the risks etc.

I stand by my point that it should be your own decision though, it should be arrived at when you no longer feel the desire to take them, cause if you suppress it, the chances are it will cause issues.
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Carl Sagan

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby bodom » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:25 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
EricJ
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby EricJ » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:57 am

Let's keep in mind that his question was specifically related the the use of psychedelics in relation to the Buddhist path. If this is the question we are asking ourselves, the answer is clear. The Buddha taught us a path of renunciation, of putting aside conditioned experiences. The basic renunciations which Buddhists strive to undertake are contained within the five precepts. Drug use profoundly strengthens the defilements of greed and delusion, more so than many of the things we encounter in our lives.

That said, the path is holistic. It takes a lot of effort and time to relinquish drugs for Buddhism. I know this from personal experience. I spent years reading about and wanting to convert to Buddhism, because I wasn't able to give up cannabis. Whenever I did give up drugs, it was due to a random surge of desire to practice Dhamma. However, I never deluded myself in to thinking that Dhamma practice and drug use are compatible in any way at all, or that the effects of psychedelics are somehow comparable to the effects of meditation.

Regards,
Eric
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3

User avatar
Moth
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Psychedelics

Postby Moth » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:54 am

Having done both cannabis and mushrooms today, with mindful intent, I realized that there was little to gain for either. Both had the undercurrent of unsatisfactoriness, suffering, impermanence, etc. Neither lead to any deeper wisdom other than an appreciation for sobriety and the sober state. Both lead me to a sudden and intense awareness of the suffering within all things, yet little awareness of the way to its cessation. This is perhaps a reflection of my own understanding of Dharma, or lack there of.
May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
http://www.everythingspirals.com


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine