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Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
PeterB
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby PeterB » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:09 pm

Shonin old bean. I thought I was clear. Obviously not.
I had a long period of maceration in the "source material" I don't believe I am misunderstanding it. I eventually rejected it as having no connection at all with Buddhadhamma.

Your conclusion that I have misunderstood Madhyamika and Nagarjuna generally stems from my refusal to enter discussion of it on its terms.
The day was when I could and did at length. I was propounding my thoughts on Nagarjuna before you were born. One of my former teachers was and is a leading scholar in the field of Nagarjuna's philosophy. ( Thrangu Rinpoche chief tutor to the present Karmapa.)

I seems necessary to repeat, so I will..
1) The Buddha did not discuss duality/nonduality.
2) Therefore any discussion of duality/non duality of necessity equals papanca. Unless you are of the view that The Buddha, like Bhikkhu Bodhi, did not understand the issue either.
3) I don't care if you agree...I don't want you to hold a different view from the view you hold. I don't want to persuade you regarding my view.
The entire subject imo is a total irrelevance as far as Buddhadhamma is concerned.
I answered Lazy Eyes OP. My replies subsequently were to distance myself from the papanca that followed . Not to come up with a form of words that will establish common ground. Because there isn't any. Not on this subject.
All of the Mahayana view of material/idealistic duality/non duality represents a misunderstanding of the true radicalism of the Buddhas teaching on D.O.as found in the Pali Canon. Your starting position Shonin is that the end of Buddhist practice is an experience of non duality. Well in those meditative disciplines that relate to the Theravada it simply isn't....repeat, is not.
The goal of Vipassana is not to experience non duality for example. It does not even feature to any degree as a goal.
Why dont you do a Vipassana course or two and then discuss on a Theravada forum what the goal of Buddhadhamma might be ?
I have no idea what the goal of Zazen practice is. And after a period spent trying to find out from ZFI I have less idea now than when I started...there doesnt appear to be any consensus. Which is somehow turned into a virtue and proof of authenticity..But I sure as hell am not going to go on to ZFI and tell them that I can explain their Buddhism to them as long as they accept my model as normative. :smile:

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:15 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:22 pm

Non-duality is dog poop that people step in then track into the house, stinking up the place. Mahayana non-duality is one of a number of not very skillful ideas that have to be very, very, very carefully understood otherwise it becomes, like buddha-nature, a Frankenstein concept, and add to that non-duality is as conceptually dual as one can possibly get. Fortunately, the teachings of the Pali suttas are neither dual or non-dual.

Non-duality is also a basis for misunderstanding one's experience, given that there is much we can experience that can seem non-dual - ah, a non-dual state, I have arrived.

Shonin
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:11 am

Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Shonin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:48 pm


Shonin
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Shonin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:24 pm

Last edited by Shonin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:33 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:37 pm


PeterB
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby PeterB » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:40 pm

As "putting up" means stepping in the doogy doo , in order to refute the idea that it isnt doggy doo...I will shut up Shonin...the floor is yours.
I can live with the knowledge that you dont accept that I actually know rather a lot about Nagarjuna etc. :smile:
If evr E Sangha gets resurrected or at least its files, you will find me a fully paid up Nagarjuna Wallah under the name Karma Gedun....But that was then.

Shonin
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Shonin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:45 pm


Shonin
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Shonin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:58 pm

Last edited by Shonin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:59 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:07 pm


Shonin
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Shonin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:23 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:32 pm


Shonin
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Shonin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:59 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:25 pm


Nyana
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Nyana » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:22 pm


Nyana
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Nyana » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:11 pm


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Lazy_eye
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:29 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Materialism, Dualism, Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:17 am



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