A sotapanna

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Goedert
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by Goedert »

Friends,

Stream-winner is possible today... The eye of the dhamma.

Let our friend share his happiness with us, if he is a sotapana or not, the time will show him. If he claimed to be an angami or an arahat some could ask him to do a demonstration of psychic power, as Maha Kassapa did with Ananda in the First Concil....

This kind of thing is a useless discussion in internet.

Take care friends.
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Virgo
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by Virgo »

A note on the attainment of nibbana: when one attains the first stage (sotapanna) the mind only contacts nibbana for three cittas (one path and two fruit). This experience is so extremely brief and lightning fast. It is said that there are tons of mind moments in a single blink of an eye. The thinking process actually takes many cittas (mind moments), many more than three. The result is that when one experiences nibbana, it is not like one is sits there and says, "Oh, so this is what nibbana is like". Instead it happens in a flash and one becomes aware that they experienced nibbana right after the fact. At that time one is also aware that the fetters are gone, and one lives without the fetters.

Kevin
zazang
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by zazang »

Greetings VIrgo..More than anything else , I have a few questsions to ask :-

1. What technique have you been following ? ( during mediation and during day to day interaction with people )

2. You said that you were on the internet at that time. Were you meditating or just got lost in some deep thinking and suddenly the realization happened or anything else ?

Thank you

Metta
zazang
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Virgo
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by Virgo »

zazang wrote:Greetings VIrgo..More than anything else , I have a few questsions to ask :-

1. What technique have you been following ? ( during mediation and during day to day interaction with people )

2. You said that you were on the internet at that time. Were you meditating or just got lost in some deep thinking and suddenly the realization happened or anything else ?

Thank you

Metta
zazang
Hi Zazang. As to 1) I have just tried to understand nama and rupa, as they really are with wisdom. This includes the six sense bases and so on.

As to 2) It does not matter what I was doing because insight can occur at any time. We have cittas all the time right? That means insight can occur at any time. I was simply using my computrer, not doing anything special.

I hope this helps.

K
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tiltbillings
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by tiltbillings »

Goedert wrote:Friends,

Stream-winner is possible today... The eye of the dhamma.

Let our friend share his happiness with us, if he is a sotapana or not, the time will show him. If he claimed to be an angami or an arahat some could ask him to do a demonstration of psychic power, as Maha Kassapa did with Ananda in the First Concil....
It is not that simple. Our friend here claimed of himself a level of attainment that requires honor and respect that beyond of which we should extend to others naturally. He himself put it out there, offering no proof of its authenticity, on a public forum, making it a subject of discussion.
[This kind of thing is a useless discussion in internet.
What is useless is this claim. Its potential for harm is significant in that it can mislead others in any number of ways.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Virgo
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by Virgo »

Hi Tilt,

I am not looking for praise and gain. Do you really think I am interested in those things?

I am not trying to down play things but if someone knows a sotapanna, big-whoop. Of course it really isn't a big whoop, but I look at it this way: If I were a putthujana and I knew a sotapanna, I would simply ask them for advice on any questions of dhamma that I had, I would pay them a gentle respect and, If they would accept it (which I do not because of the day and age) I would make an offering to them. Other than that, I would just leave them alone. So in the end it's not really a big whoop. All it would mean for me would be that I would have someone of Right View that I could ask a question of here and there. I would still just have to live my own life. It would not rock my world. My intention is not to rock any ones world either. If I wanted praise and fame I could do other things for it. I have many talents. Stating you are a sotapanna, without the Buddha around to verify it, will attract as much skepticism as it does praise if not more so. It is not the most economical way to go about getting praise and fame, if you know what I mean. Besides I live in America in a materialist, skeptical society. It is not like Buddhists will even go our of there way to pay respect to me. I bet you that not one person in my life ever bows to me or any thing like because I am a sotapanna. If I wanted people to bow to me I would go be a monk again where Thai women would wait for us monks, in the early morning alms round, sometimes waiting on their knees with their hands in the "wai" position at 5:00 in the morning and give us food, and where people would jump to give you something, know you, pay for your ride in a taxi and so on. I guarantee you that if what I really wanted was admiration, respect, praise and gain, that I would get much, much more of it simply being a monk again rather than stating that I am a sotapanna. That is not the reason to be a monk, but if what I wanted was respect from the Buddhist community I would have to do is be a good monk, It is simply not my intention. It is simply not my intention. My intention was just to share my experience with other people, that's all.

Kevin

Kevin
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tiltbillings
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by tiltbillings »

Virgo wrote:Hi Tilt,

I am not looking for praise and gain. Do you really think I am interested in those things?
It would seem that you are, given all that you have said, and you have to some extent, gotten that here. If you are extra-ordinary - as you claim of yourself -, there is no real reason to proclaim yourself extra-ordinary-ness in public. The Dhamma is lived.
Stating you are a sotapanna, without the Buddha around to verify it, will attract as much skepticism as it does praise.
It will attract attention, which you have also gotten. This is not about bowing.

If you wanted to share your experience there are ways of doing so without puting yourself on a pedestal, of claiming for yourself a position of honor and respect no one else here claims.

Just as a side question: How long were you a monk?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Aloka
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by Aloka »

Could I say, respectfully, that it would be really nice to draw a line under this now if it's possible.. and just move on to other more beneficial discussions with the community here.

Personally I have absolutely no interest in public claims of attainment and will continue to regard Virgo in the same way that I view everyone else here....as a fellow practitioner on the path.

_/\_
Mukunda
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by Mukunda »

tiltbillings wrote:
What is useless is this claim. Its potential for harm is significant in that it can mislead others in any number of ways.
What is useless is this going on and on ad nauseum about something that can't be verified one way or the other. :cookoo: I mean really, if the claim could be definitively proven, one way or the other right this very minute, how would it change the way I live my life and practice the dhamma? :shrug:
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tiltbillings
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Re: A sotapanna

Post by tiltbillings »

In response to the last msgs above: Okay.

If anyone has anything more of any actual substance to add, please drop the moderation team a note and we can certainly reopen this thread.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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