Seeking some advice

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
Brizzy

Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Brizzy »

Shonin wrote:Being a monk or a layperson is matter of life situation, not a matter of rank nor necessarily a matter of attainment. There are many highly realised lay teachers who may or may not have spent time as a monk or nun.
I agree. In the Buddha's time there were charlatan monks and highly realised laypeople.

However the Buddha would have looked askance at any monk who bowed down to a layman or served in a laymans organisation (junior member at that). The sangha stands apart as a the highest "spiritual group" not as individuals. I would bow down to the most degenerate monk (if he was still in the sangha), not because of who he is but because of what he represents.

:smile:

BTW One question that has always interested me is............If a layperson ordains and then leaves the sangha, is it reasonable to assume that they had not attained one of the paths? I have never come across this in the suttas (I should imagine if it were to be found it would be in the vinaya). Has anyone come across this in the sutta/vinaya?

:smile:
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by jcsuperstar »

Brizzy wrote:
However the Buddha would have looked askance at any monk who bowed down to a layman or served in a laymans organisation (

:smile:
i dont know, i cant claim to know the mind of the Buddha
BTW One question that has always interested me is............If a layperson ordains and then leaves the sangha, is it reasonable to assume that they had not attained one of the paths? I have never come across this in the suttas (I should imagine if it were to be found it would be in the vinaya). Has anyone come across this in the sutta/vinaya?

:smile:
i suppose it would depend on why they disrobe
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
Brizzy

Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Brizzy »

jcsuperstar wrote:
Brizzy wrote:
However the Buddha would have looked askance at any monk who bowed down to a layman or served in a laymans organisation (

:smile:
i dont know, i cant claim to know the mind of the Buddha
I don't claim to know the Buddha's mind, I only read the suttas and the message they convey. You have to make your own mind up "What would the Buddha say".

:smile:
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maverick
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by maverick »

Actually i like to get contact address of any monetarist, monks, who follow the same meditation technique as taught by SN Goenka,
I have send PM to Bhikku Appicchato, regarding my question and i am waiting his reply.
From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, enough to be RELEASED.

The path is not about becoming a better person — it is about putting an end to becoming
Seaker
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Seaker »

Dukkhanirodha wrote:
Ben wrote: I also understand that in recent years there is/has been at least one bhikkhu, in Burma, who is an assistant teacher within the SN Goenka 'tradition'.
In case it would be helpful, I heard a similar story, plus I was given a name and adress:

Sayadaw Pyinyazawta

Thephyu Tawya Dhamma Yeiktha
Thephyu village
Hmawby district

I am also interested about this. I did not look further as I googled the name "Pyinyazawta" and didn't like what I found, although it could have been someone else entirely. So I thought maybe this monk had separated from Goenka's lineage to teach his own way, in which case I was not interested. As I see Ben says he would still be in Goenka's organization, I will dig deeper on the issue and then make you know what I find.

:anjali:
They are obviously different Pyinyazawtas ! I've googled that name and the picture that comes out (with a monk and people related to the movie Burma VJ - what's to be disliked there by the way ?) is not the picture of the Sayadaw Pyinyazawta who is the teacher and abbot at Thephyu Meditation Center (and a former Goenka assistant - but his teaching style has moved on, and might be closer to Pa-Auk now... to be checked).
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brother.peace
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by brother.peace »

Dear Brother,

I found myself in a similar position to you about 7years ago.

I do have some advice, but I ask you to simply look very carefully and clearly at the decisions you make. Take your time and do not rush into anything. I'm not sure of the exact time you have been in the Vipassana practice but you will see that, in the Theavada the basis is the same. The Satipattana and Anapanasati Suttas as well as the teachings on the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path. You will have do some study in order to deepen your understanding of the Buddha's path, and I think you will eventually see that it is very beneficial as long as you are able to balance it with the actual practice. There are many who get caught in the intellectual approach to study, but this is simply an extension of the mundane if it is not balanced with sincere practice. I think study and exposure to the teachings is an essential part of the practice.

There are some very good monasteries in the US. I would check out what is in your local area before you make a trip to another country. You may find what you need is in your backyard. As you have access to a computer, look them up and pay a visit to them. Take your time to visit, and visit as many before committing yourself to a specific center. Get to good feel of the teacher and the practice of the Sangha. It is difficult to practice in a center that has an excellent teacher but an undisciplined sangha. My experience of the practice in SN Goenka's centers has been very good, but when you visit a monastery remember that these monks are not just there for just 10days of intense training, they are there for life so you may see some things that are a bit different. So also be flexible.

In my experience I went like a burning flame into ordination and I went to the first place that accepted me. Because of this I changed my meditation technique for about 4-5 years and even my lineage, I went from a Theravada basis to the Mahayana, before I came back to the Satipatana as my basis for meditation practice. I would say do not change your technique unless you see it stemming from the sutta's or you have some very clear experiences.

I hate to digress, but I think that SN Goenka may practice better than many who are ordained. And so even spending more time as a lay follower of his traditions may be the most suitable until clarity arise in regards to your aspiration. I would say he practices better that I do :smile: I personally see no obstacles to a monk following him. I follow his example and am still learning from my time in his practice. It is quite possible that Goenka has refrained from ordination out of compassion for the masses but is, in actuality, living the life of a celibate monk. I love my robes and I love my precepts, but have no superiority nor inferiority in relation to anything.

This is quite long and I apologize. I hope there is something that is helpful for you.
Be well, be solid, and contact me if you need to.

With love and support
-Brother Peace
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pilgrim
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by pilgrim »

I remember reading the bio of Ven Jotipalo that he practised in the Goenka tradition before deciding to ordain in the Wat Pah Pong Sangha at Amaravati, USA. He is presently staying at Vimutti monastery in New Zealand http://www.vimutti.org.nz/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also monastic teachers appointed to AT in the Goenka system is not uncommon. If you read their newsletters you would come across this every now and then. I don't see any issues with that. They are just teaching a system developed by Goenka. They don't bow to him and Goenka himself visits monasteries to offer dana.
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