Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

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retrofuturist
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:The problem with Wallace is that many modern Vipassana teachers could be read to include any of the following:

...

Ajahn Buddhadasa (1906 - 1993)
Could, but shouldn't, since Ajahn Buddhadasa made no claim to be a vipassana teacher. In fact, Ajahn Buddhadasa said "vipassana cannot be taught".

An extract from ANAPANASATI - MINDFULNESS WITH BREATHING: Unveiling the Secrets of Life: a Manual for Serious Beginners
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... athing.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Vipassana, insight: literally, "clear seeing," to see clearly, distinctly, directly into the true nature of things, into aniccam-dukkham-anatta. Vipassana is popularly used for mental development practiced for the sake of true insight. In such cases, the physical posture, theory, and method of such practices must not be confused with true realization of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and not-self. Vipassana cannot be taught.
Speaking of Buddhadasa, and the matter of sati...

Extract from THE NATURAL CURE FOR SPIRITUAL DISEASE: A Guide into Buddhist Science
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... sease2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sati (mindfulness, reflective awareness, recollection) is the quick awareness and recall of the things which must be recalled. It must be as quick as an arrow. We also can describe sati as a vehicle or transport mechanism of the fastest kind. This most rapid transport doesn't carry material things, it carries wisdom and knowledge. Sati delivers paññä (wisdom) in time to meet our needs. Through the practice of mindfulness with breathing, sati is trained fully.
Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:The problem with Wallace is that many modern Vipassana teachers could be read to include any of the following:

...

Ajahn Buddhadasa (1906 - 1993)
Could, but shouldn't, since Ajahn Buddhadasa made no claim to be a vipassana teacher. In fact, Ajahn Buddhadasa said "vipassana cannot be taught".
How seriously can we take him? Actually, for all his bluster, and there is a lot of it, he is quoted a lot by vipassana teachers, but I'd be happy to leave him out of the list.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Goofaholix »

I haven't heard of Alan B Wallace before this but I find curious that the introduction of the article makes much of his academic achievements and there is nothing about his practise experience.

Surely what qualifies him to make the observations he has has made in the article is what vipassana teachers he has practised under, his retreat experience.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by mikenz66 »

Goofaholix wrote:I haven't heard of Alan B Wallace before this but I find curious that the introduction of the article makes much of his academic achievements and there is nothing about his practise experience.

Surely what qualifies him to make the observations he has has made in the article is what vipassana teachers he has practised under, his retreat experience.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Alan_Wallace" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wallace trained as a Tibetan monk for fourteen years, so he has considerable retreat experience. After that he did a bachelor's degree in physics and a phd in religious studies at Stanford. His books on Buddhism and Science (such as "Choosing Reality: A Buddhist View of Physics and the Mind), are some of the few writings in that area that have struck me as remotely useful (in my experience, most writers on Buddhism and Science are either ignorant of Science or Buddhism, or both). In his writings and talks he often talks about the Pali texts and commentaries, and has stated that he sees his understanding of Shamatha as quite similar to Jhana as expounded in the Visuddhimagga. (See the interviews here: http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2008/03/bg ... a-project/).


Mike
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings »

Also B. Alan Wallace, in his more formal books on Tibetan Buddhism does consider Theravada to be hinayana. Basically, he is a jhana-wallah coming from a Gelugpa standpoint.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by sukhamanveti »

tiltbillings wrote:This is an irresponsible set of statements by Wallace. It is the sort of thing that reads like a sectarian polemic. There is no balance in it.
Tilt,

I see your point. I think that Wallace made a mistake and could have been more careful with his words ("many modern vipassana teachers"), but he means well. If he appears to be engaging in sectarian attacks, then it is surely unintentional. It is more likely that he is not expressing himself clearly. He has often demonstrated his desire to be nonsectarian. Although he began as a Gelugpa monk, he has studied and practiced all four major Tibetan Buddhist traditions and even some nonTibetan Buddhist traditions. In his book Tibetan Buddhism from the Ground Up, as you probably know, he recommends at least two forms of Theravada meditation and even says, "The path of satipatthana, or close application of mindfulness, is one of the great paths to enlightenment." One of his first teachers denounces sectarianism.

I came across these relevant words from B. Alan Wallace today:

“Over the past thirty-four years that I have studied and practiced Buddhism, I have trained under the guidance of sixty teachers from the East and West. Most of my spiritual mentors have been Tibetan, but I have also learned from meditation masters trained in the Theravada traditions of Burma, Thailand, and Sri Lanka. Among the wide range of meditation practices to which I have been exposed, I have found none more beneficial than the following five Buddhist meditations:

“Meditative quiescence

The Four Applications of Mindfulness (of the body, feelings, mind, and mental objects) [a strong endorsement of Theravada meditation here]

“The Four Immeasurables (compassion, loving-kindness, empathetic joy, and equanimity)

“Dream yoga

“Dzogchen, the Great Perfection [a Nyingma practice]

As far as I’m concerned, these are the greatest hits of the Buddhist meditative tradition because they represent a direct path leading to the realization of our deepest nature [shunyata] and the potentials of consciousness.”

B. Alan Wallace, Genuine Happiness: Meditation as the Path to Fulfillment (Hoboken, New Jersey: John Wiley and Sons, Inc., 2005), p. 1.

It sounds to me like he actually has a very positive view of Theravada, although he may not always express it very well.
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings »

sukhamanveti wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:This is an irresponsible set of statements by Wallace. It is the sort of thing that reads like a sectarian polemic. There is no balance in it.
Tilt,

I see your point. I think that Wallace made a mistake and could have been more careful with his words ("many modern vipassana teachers"), but he means well. If he appears to be engaging in sectarian attacks, then it is surely unintentional. It is more likely that he is not expressing himself clearly.
Just be clear here, I do not see Wallace as some sort of evil sectarianist. It may be that he is not very skilful at expressing himself off the cuff, or it may be that off the cuff he is expressing what he actually thinks. Damdifino, but in either case the interview is a problem, which is too bad for all his supposed non-sectarianism.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by alan »

Yes, it is the interview that is the problem. and now we can put this to bed.
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings »

sukhamanveti wrote:I came across these relevant words from B. Alan Wallace today:

The Four Applications of Mindfulness (of the body, feelings, mind, and mental objects) [a strong endorsement of Theravada meditation here].
Are you saying it is an endorsement of Theravada meditation because it is the “The Four Applications of Mindfulness"?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Sobeh wrote:The rubric is asking about whether bare attention is taught alone, or in connection with the rest of sammasati. The vipassana method is not the issue here, but rather the content of the vipassana instruction. In other words, defining bare attention as "initial" means there are later steps. Defining it as "vipassana in sum" is thereby inaccurate and misleading. So, never mind a preliminary teaching or a later one: is a given vipassana teacher defining vipassana solely as bare attention, or not?

Bhikkhu Pesala, as noted, refers to bare attention as a preliminary step, so we expect there will be other meditative skills to learn and that we will not rely solely on bare attention over time. Quite contrary to this, the article is critiquing unnamed individuals who teach that bare attention is the whole of vipassana; the question is whether such individuals exist, which we can find out by discerning how various meditation teachers define vipassana to their students.

It is now largely a matter of finding examples.
In that context, Ajahn Chah said sati is recollection; that it is a cause for the arising of self-awareness and wisdom. It is not awareness itself but a cause for its arising.
That which "looks over" the various factors which arise in meditation is 'sati', mindfulness. This sati is a condition which, through practice, can help other factors to arise. Sati is life. Whenever we don't have sati, when we are heedless, it's as if we are dead. If we have no sati, then our speech and actions have no meaning. This sati is simply recollection. It's a cause for the arising of self-awareness and wisdom. Whatever virtues we have cultivated are imperfect if lacking in sati. Sati is that which watches over us while standing, walking, sitting and lying. Even when we are no longer in samadhi, sati should be present throughout.

Whatever we do we take care. A sense of shame will arise. We will feel ashamed about the things we do which aren't correct. As shame increases, our collectedness will increase as well. When collectedness increases, heedlessness will disappear. Even if we don't sit in meditation, these factors will be present in the mind.

And this arises because of cultivating sati. Develop sati! This is the dhamma which looks over the work we are doing or have done in the past. It has usefulness. We should know ourselves at all times. If we know ourselves like this, right will distinguish itself from wrong, the path will become clear, and cause for all shame will dissolve. Wisdom will arise.
Source: http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... reedom.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Ben »

Hi Tilt and all,

Sorry to come into this conversation so late and pick up on an earlier post, but I've just been away managing a ten-day retreat in the tradition of one of those naughty vipassana traditions.

With regards to Tilt's point:
tiltbillings wrote:This is an irresponsible set of statements by Wallace. It is the sort of thing that reads like a sectarian polemic. There is no balance in it.
I haven't had time yet to read the article in question, but I did get half-way through Wallace's "Attention Revolution" which is marketed as a mindfulness-meditation manual striped of Vajrayana before putting it down. While I did have high hopes for the book, I was disappointed with insinuations he made in the work which gave one the distinct impression that the samatha practices within the Theravada were lacking or inferior to those practiced within the Diamond-Buick. It was disappointing.
kind regards

Ben
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Jack »

Vipassana, insight: literally, "clear seeing," to see clearly, distinctly, directly into the true nature of things, into aniccam-dukkham-anatta. Vipassana is popularly used for mental development practiced for the sake of true insight. In such cases, the physical posture, theory, and method of such practices must not be confused with true realization of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and not-self. Vipassana cannot be taught.
=
The last line in the above quote could be misleading. The whole sentence reads. “Vipassana cannot be taught, although methods to nurture it are taught.” My understanding is that this is similar to a music teacher saying I can teach people the method of playing the violin but that quality which produces the first violin of the Philadelphia Orchestra cannot be taught

Here is a quote from another place in the same book, ”There are many approaches to vipassana, and anapanasati is one of the most important.” I think Buddhadasa Bhikkhu might say he doesn’t teach vipassana but he does teach the Anapanasati Sutta which doesn’t use the words jhana or vipassana but does start with concentration and end in insight into the 3 Marks. I think he does teach vipassana but calls it something else and places it within the Anap. Sutta.

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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Jack »

>>While such naughty modern Vipassana teachers may be out there I have never read any or practiced with any modern Vipassana teachers who have not put bare attention into its much broader Dhamma context.<<

===
For those interested, here is a guided vipassana meditation by Joseph Goldstein:
http://www.dharma.org/ims/mr_audio.php#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. This form seems to that used by most Vipassana teachers, at least those connected with IMS. Nowhere is bare intention mentioned. But, I think bare intention as not adding imagination to whatever enters a sense door (seeing in the seeing, etc.) is implied.

Jack
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Aloka »

Alan Wallace has said:
The primary meaning of sati, on the other hand, is recollection, non-forgetfulness. This includes retrospective memory of things in the past, prospectively remembering to do something in the future, and present-centered recollection in the sense of maintaining unwavering attention to a present reality. The opposite of mindfulness is forgetfulness, so mindfulness applied to the breath, for instance, involves continuous, unwavering attention to the respiration. Mindfulness may be used to sustain bare attention (manasikara), but nowhere do traditional Buddhist sources equate mindfulness with such attention.

The Pali states:
"What is sammasati? Sati means to bear in mind or bring to mind. Sati is the state of recollecting, the state of remembering, the state of non-fading, the state of non-forgetting. Sati means the sati that is a Spiritual Faculty, the sati that is a Spiritual Power, Sammasati, the Sati that is an Enlightenment Factor, that which is a Path Factor and that which is related to the Path. This is what is called sammasati."

[Vbh.105, 286]

Also:
One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong resolve & to enter & remain in right resolve: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong speech & to enter & remain in right speech: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong action & to enter & remain in right action: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong livelihood & to enter & remain in right livelihood: This is one's right mindfulness.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"And what is the faculty of mindfulness? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, is mindful, highly meticulous, remembering & able to call to mind even things that were done & said long ago. He remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... the mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. This is called the faculty of mindfulness.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or his mindfulness that 'There is a body' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world.

Or his mindfulness that 'There are feelings' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world.

Or his mindfulness that 'There is a mind' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world.

Or his mindfulness that 'There are mental qualities' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Thanissaro says:
To see how Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration help each other in the practice, we can look at the three stages of mindfulness practice given in the Foundations of Mindfulness Sutta. Take the body as an example. The first stage is to keep focused on the body in and of itself, putting aside greed and distress with reference to the world. What this means is taking the body as a body without thinking about it in terms of what it means or what it can do in the world. It could be either good or bad looking. It could be strong or weak. It could be agile or clumsy — all the issues we tend to worry about when we think about ourselves. The Buddha says to put those issues aside.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... cmind.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Pali sources appear to agree with Alan Wallace and disagree with the notion of sati as 'bare awareness'.

The Pali agrees with Alan that mindfulness may be used to sustain bare attention but nowhere do traditional Buddhist sources equate mindfulness with such attention.
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Aloka »

Also, Alan Wallace states:
When mindfulness is equated with bare attention, it can easily lead to the misconception that the cultivation of mindfulness has nothing to do with ethics or with the cultivation of wholesome states of mind and the attenuation of unwholesome states. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the Pali Abhidhamma, where mindfulness is listed as a wholesome mental factor, it is not depicted as bare attention, but as a mental factor that clearly distinguishes wholesome from unwholesome mental states and behavior. And it is used to support wholesome states and counteract unwholesome states.

Wallace's view here appears to accord with the Great Forty sutta, as follows:

One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness.


One is mindful to abandon wrong resolve & to enter & remain in right resolve: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong speech & to enter & remain in right speech: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong action & to enter & remain in right action: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong livelihood & to enter & remain in right livelihood: This is one's right mindfulness.
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