Anapanasati

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Anapanasati

Postby widfola » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:51 pm

Can anybody shed light on this :- Is there any definitive meaning for Anapanasati. Is it mindfulness OF breathing or is it mindfulness WITH breathing.

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Re: Anapanasati

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:54 pm

I have always seen it as OF breathing.

anapanasati [aanaapaanasati]: Mindfulness of breathing. A meditation practice in which one maintains one's attention and mindfulness on the sensations of breathing.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby widfola » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:58 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:I have always seen it as OF breathing.

anapanasati [aanaapaanasati]: Mindfulness of breathing. A meditation practice in which one maintains one's attention and mindfulness on the sensations of breathing.


Is there a specific etymology of the word anapanasati, that would clarify if it is WITH or OF?
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:02 pm

widfola wrote:Is there a specific etymology of the word anapanasati, that would clarify if it is WITH or OF?


This may not help much, but this is from: Maha Thera Nyanatiloka. Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, Buddhist Publication Society, first edition 1952.

Ānāpāna-sati: Awareness or mindfulness on & by in-and-out-breathing, is one of the most important trainings for reaching mental concentration and the 4 absorptions jhāna. In the Satipatthāna Sutta M. 10, D. 22 and elsewhere, 4 methods of practice are given, which may also serve as basis for insight meditation. The speech on Awareness by Breathing' Ānāpānasati Sutta, M. 118 and other texts have 16 methods of practice, which divide into 4 groups of four. The first three apply to both calm samatha and insight-meditation, while the fourth refers to pure insight praxis only. With attentive mind he breathes in, with attentive mind he breathes out.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:05 pm

widfola wrote:Is there a specific etymology of the word anapanasati, that would clarify if it is WITH or OF?


Anapana = breathing
Sati = mindfulness

I think 'saha' would have to be in the compound for it to be 'with' but I'm still in the learning stage of Pali.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby widfola » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:07 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
widfola wrote:Is there a specific etymology of the word anapanasati, that would clarify if it is WITH or OF?


This may not help much, but this is from: Maha Thera Nyanatiloka. Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, Buddhist Publication Society, first edition 1952.

Ānāpāna-sati: Awareness or mindfulness on & by in-and-out-breathing, is one of the most important trainings for reaching mental concentration and the 4 absorptions jhāna. In the Satipatthāna Sutta M. 10, D. 22 and elsewhere, 4 methods of practice are given, which may also serve as basis for insight meditation. The speech on Awareness by Breathing' Ānāpānasati Sutta, M. 118 and other texts have 16 methods of practice, which divide into 4 groups of four. The first three apply to both calm samatha and insight-meditation, while the fourth refers to pure insight praxis only. With attentive mind he breathes in, with attentive mind he breathes out.



Thanks. The last line could be took either way.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby PeterB » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:33 pm

I think thats its OF breathing Wildfola.
We awaken and hone mindfulness by focusing on the breath.
Mindfulness doesnt simply arise with the breath or prior to the breath.
It takes effort.
Last edited by PeterB on Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby Virgo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:40 pm

It is mindfulness of breathing in and out.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby PeterB » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:37 pm

Breathing in and out is the sign of not being dead.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:06 pm

Hi Peter,
PeterB wrote:Breathing in and out is the sign of not being dead.

Hence the first precept:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #precepts5
Pāṇātipātā (veramaṇī sikkhā-padaṃ samādiyāmi).
(I undertake the training rule to refrain from )taking life.

"Breathing-beings-killing (I undertake the training rule to refrain from ).

[My Pali is too rudimentary to attempt to unpack the "refrain from" phrase, but the thing to refrain from is always at the start of each phrase...]

I mention this, because I was at a discussion about the precepts led by a lay person a few months ago and I remarked that the first precept is literally about not killing breathing beings, and the meaning was related to Ānāpānasati. This seemed to startle her, for some reason that I couldn't quite work out...

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Re: Anapanasati

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:20 pm

PeterB wrote:Breathing in and out is the sign of not being dead.


In other words, if we are meditating, we are probably alive and therefore breathing is a given?

If that is the point, then it would also give credence to it being OF breathing.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:35 pm

That could be a very interesting thread!
mikenz66 wrote:Hi Peter,
PeterB wrote:Breathing in and out is the sign of not being dead.

Hence the first precept:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #precepts5
Pāṇātipātā (veramaṇī sikkhā-padaṃ samādiyāmi).
(I undertake the training rule to refrain from )taking life.

"Breathing-beings-killing (I undertake the training rule to refrain from ).

[My Pali is too rudimentary to attempt to unpack the "refrain from" phrase, but the thing to refrain from is always at the start of each phrase...]

I mention this, because I was at a discussion about the precepts led by a lay person a few months ago and I remarked that the first precept is literally about not killing breathing beings, and the meaning was related to Ānāpānasati. This seemed to startle her, for some reason that I couldn't quite work out...

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Re: Anapanasati

Postby BlackBird » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:05 pm

Ana - in breath
Pana - out breath
Sati - mindfulness

Mindfulness of breathing in and out.

Mindfulness is recollection or memory. It is possible to be aware of the breathing but it is not possible to remember or recollect the breathing because it is only possible to remember mental phenomena.


It might be helpful to remember that while sati in pali had the Pre-Buddhist meaning of "remembering", It very rarely appears in this context within the Tipitaka. Often the Buddha would take a word or concept within the language and society of the time and put a new spin on it (Gombrich [i think]). I have a vague recollection of Ven. Nyanponika Thera saying something about this in 'The Heart of Buddhist meditation' with regards to sati, I'll have a hunt.

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Last edited by BlackBird on Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:18 pm

sanskrit 'prana' means life. However in this case 'ana' 'pana' means 'in' 'out' as far as I am aware. So it literally means 'mindfulness of in and out breathing'. If you want to be mindful of other things there is the world to pick from in the satipatthana sutta. However if you look at the instructions in the anapanasati sutta it seems to suggest WITH as much as OF. (with mind, with joy, with etc etc)
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:34 pm

rowyourboat wrote:sanskrit 'prana' means life. However in this case 'ana' 'pana' means 'in' 'out' as far as I am aware. So it literally means 'mindfulness of in and out breathing'. If you want to be mindful of other things there is the world to pick from in the satipatthana sutta. However if you look at the instructions in the anapanasati sutta it seems to suggest WITH as much as OF. (with mind, with joy, with etc etc)


Hi RYB
Would you mind to elaborate, particularly the underlined part you placed in brackets.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby bodom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:52 pm

I would say the first two steps in the first tetrad refer specifically to mindfulness OF breathing. There is some doubt regarding the third and fourth steps due to the ambiguity of the term "whole body", whether it refers to the breath body or the physical body. The second, third and fourth tetrads corresponding to feelings, mind and dhammas, are specifically mindfulness WITH breathing .This is supported by Buddhadasa and Analayo who both say that "Awareness of breathing in and out forms the background to each step." See Analayo's Satipatthana commentary along with Buddhadasa's Mindfulness with Breathing.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:16 am

The thread will be temporarily locked for some house-keeping. Some sweeping needs to be done, then we shall open it.
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby Ben » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:00 am

Dear members

Please note that as this is a Pali Language sub-forum within the Classical forum, all answers should present references from either Pali language texts or expositions from scholars representative of the Mahavihara tradition. Any post that fails to comply with these guidelines may disappear without warning.
Thanks for your patience and cooperation.

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Re: Anapanasati

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:23 am

A moderator's note: Several posting by one individual and one response to that individual postings have been removed. It is not a matter of censorship; rather, the individual in question has been permanently banned for egregious violations of the TOS thereby forgoing any right or privilege of posting here and after this banning this person has repeatedly signed on to Dhamma Wheel using different names. There is no point in rewarding such behavior by leaving this naughty element's msgs in place. We are sorry for the one msg that was removed that was posted in good faith.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Anapanasati

Postby BlackBird » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:25 am

BlackBird wrote:I have a vague recollection of Ven. Nyanponika Thera saying something about this in 'The Heart of Buddhist meditation' with regards to sati, I'll have a hunt.


Ven. Nyanaponika Thera wrote:The title.-In the compound Pali term 'sati-patthana', the first word sati had originally the meaning of 'memory', 'rememberance'. In Buddhist usage, however, and particularly in the Pali scriptures, it has only occasionally retained that meaning of remembering past events. It mostly refers there to the present, and as a general psychological term it carries the meaning of 'attention' or 'awareness'.

- Pg. 9. The Heart of Buddhist Meditation
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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