I want to ordain..but....debt

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Annapurna
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by Annapurna »

Goofaholix wrote:
Annapurna wrote:Could you work as a tutor for English?

Or start an internet shop with something? Or handcraft something and sell it? Or your wife? Car wash? Just for a while?
As Fred mentioned it's very difficult to work in Thailand legally as a foreigner.

To work legally as an english tutor he needs a degree. To open an internet shop he needs to compete with the hundreds open already. To do crafts or car wash he'd need to be happy living on $1 a day as he'd be competing with the poorest of the poor.

Fred, there are other Visa options that don't require a bank balance, aren't there? have you asked your question on Thaivisa? Perhaps your volunteer work for monforamonth will help you qualify for a different kind of visa if you get a letter from your abbott.

I think it's not right you should find yourself in this position after living there for 18 years and having married a local.
To work legally as an english tutor he needs a degree.

Really? Here any pupil can tutor another.
To open an internet shop he needs to compete with the hundreds open already.
Sure but you have to compete everywhwere, If you're good and work hard, you'll make it.
To do crafts or car wash he'd need to be happy living on $1 a day as he'd be competing with the poorest of the poor.
I believe you if you say so.
Perhaps your volunteer work for monforamonth will help you qualify for a different kind of visa if you get a letter from your abbott.
That's very good idea, by all means try that, Fred.
Last edited by Annapurna on Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Annapurna
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by Annapurna »

jcsuperstar wrote:
to fred:
you could sell stuff on ebay, thai stuff, amulets, statues, books, crafts. it wont make you a lot of cash however there seems to be a few ebay stores that have been doing it for a bit. you'd want to find what those guys dont offer and offer it, or offer the more popular items at a lower cost.
.
Well, exactly, that is what I meant. A shop is a shop, whether it's hosted on ebay, Etsy or elsewhere.
you could tutor english as well.
Huh? :shock: Isn't that what I just suggested and was told it's illegal? :thinking:

I'm not talking about a TEACHER - at school-, I am talking about giving private lessons after school, to kids who have bad grades! Parents are always willing to invest something in the education of their children...

Perhaps?
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appicchato
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by appicchato »

Basically none of this pertains to the OP's question...but to see what he's contending with check out Fang, Thailand on google earth...
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Annapurna
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by Annapurna »

I looked at it, not sure what I'm supposed to look for? Bäh, I don't get it. :embarassed:
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mikenz66
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by mikenz66 »

fabianfred wrote: I took photos of an ordination ceremony today....it is that time of year...summer holiday...short term monks. Why is it that the 227 rules of a monk forbid the handling of money, but the first alms round after ordination is always cash, cash ,cash!!!
Don't know. Same thing happens down here.

We had six boys ordain as novices here yesterday. Several of them have come from Bangkok to stay for six weeks. They probably got a bit of a shock having their heads shaved on a cool NZ morning...

Metta
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Goofaholix
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by Goofaholix »

Annapurna wrote: Really? Here any pupil can tutor another.
In Thailand a foreigner must have a work permit to work, even voluntary work or just helping out in the family business.

It's easy to to get away with working illegally but if you get caught you'll be deported or have to pay a bribe, helping with his wifes business it's probably easier to not get caught than going to tutoring english students as you are more visible with the latter.
Annapurna wrote: Sure but you have to compete everywhwere, If you're good and work hard, you'll make it.
In that part of Thailand an internet cafe generally charges about 10 baht an hour, about 25c US. So I guess if he had 5 computers If he were lucky he'd make $10 per day. How long do you think it would take before he broke even and paid off the extra debt he'd have to go into to buy the computers?

Neither of the above solve his immediate problem which is to have enough money in his bank account so he can prove to the thai government he can support himself without working.
Last edited by Goofaholix on Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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― Ajahn Chah
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Goofaholix
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by Goofaholix »

Fred, it occurred to me that as foreigners can't own land in Thailand your house will be in your wifes name. If the house is in her name then presumably the mortgage is too. So it's her debt, not yoyr debt.

It sounds like splitting hairs but if you are confident she will continue to pay it off out of your pension I think your concience is clear.

As far as Ordination is concerned from what I recall you get asked in pali if you are in debt and you reply in pali that you are not according to the formula.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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bazzaman
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by bazzaman »

.
Last edited by bazzaman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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salmon
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by salmon »

Hi Fabian,

instead of seeking ordination, why don't you speak to the abbot of the temple in Fang where you are currently volunteering at? I believe they might be able to help you apply for a working(?) visa to continue to stay there. I know that there are options for the temples to apply for foreign teachers to teach in their temples, so if the temple you are volunteering at is established enough, getting a visa shouldn't be a problem.
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~
Clueless Git
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by Clueless Git »

Goofaholix wrote:Fred, it occurred to me that as foreigners can't own land in Thailand your house will be in your wifes name. If the house is in her name then presumably the mortgage is too. So it's her debt, not yoyr debt.

It sounds like splitting hairs but if you are confident she will continue to pay it off out of your pension I think your concience is clear.

As far as Ordination is concerned from what I recall you get asked in pali if you are in debt and you reply in pali that you are not according to the formula.
That sounds sensible to me.

It would cost nowt to draft an agreement that switched the debt to another in return for that other receiving the pension money untill the debt is cleared.

If both the debt, and the asset with which to repay it, are transfered into a willing and trustworthy others name; Then I can see no way in which Fred would not be being totaly honest in saying that, prior to ordination, he has made arrangements that settle his debts in full.

Being debt free is, after all, only a matter of having sufficient guaranteed assets to offset ones guaranteed liabilities?
fabianfred
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by fabianfred »

Just to bring this topic up to date..
I ordained as a novice on 9th May because I was led to believe by a monk from WPN that even novices who have the Suttee (monks passport) can get the one year R visa ..(unconfirmed as of this date...)
However the abbot of my temple wanted me to ordain as a monk before entering Pansa, especially as i was also teaching some temporary monks and he thought it better if I was a monk and not a novice. he said that as it was not my intention to escape my debt that it was OK.
Now i ordained on the 21st July... In August I will have to go to BKK for the letter to get an R visa....update later...
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mikenz66
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by mikenz66 »

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu
:anjali:

Mike
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Dhammakid
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Post by Dhammakid »

Sadhu! May your sincere practice bear great fruit now and later.

Every time someone on DW ordains, I gain a bit more inspiration to do the same sometime later in life.

:anjali:
Dhammakid
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