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Vipassana - Dhamma Wheel

Vipassana

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
Brizzy

Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:29 am

Hi

Are the vipassana techniques, taught through the Mahasi & Goenka centres, relatively new inventions based on commentarial works?
Is vipassana in the Nikayas, portrayed as more of a reflective and contemplative exercise coupled with jhana, where sati is a faculty that is developed (satipatthana) rather than a technique?
I ask, since some people seem to say that the whole path & wisdom that the Buddha offered can be summed up in one simple technique. If that were the case the Buddha could have just given this simple technique and forgot about the several thousand discourses he taught.
I have always thought (not always :( ) that there was a touch of the jains/niganthas in the modern day vipassana techniques. The emphasis on what amounts to deliberately induced pain is reminiscent of ascetic practices of old, as if somehow you can burn up old kamma, through pain, (like the draining of a battery/quite ridiculous!). That is why I ask if these techniques are relatively new.

Metta :smile:

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
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Location: London, UK

Re: Vipassana

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:58 pm

Hi Brizzy

The answer is yes and no. 'Yes', because they aren't specifically mentioned in that form in the suttas (even though each would claim sutta evidence); 'No' because what method is NOT included in the satipatthana (ie- most methods are)? There is a deeper issue- we might as well be trying to judge the engine of a car by looking at what colour the exterior is. It may well work for you or it may not. Try one, try all- if one doesnt work for you try another method. Where one does not completely fullfil, the other might provide the missing pieces of the path.

Don't forget that there is an element of renunciation in the Noble Eightfold Path- so a little bit of pain might actually go a long way. But we are just commenting on the colour here ultimately. Lets not forget that living is painful.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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mikenz66
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Re: Vipassana

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:45 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Vipassana

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:05 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Ben » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:27 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Freawaru
Posts: 489
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Freawaru » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:45 am


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:21 pm


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:32 pm


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:42 pm


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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Vipassana

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:55 pm

The 10-day Goenka retreats are "introductory" courses. If you have done many of them, as I have done, you will hear Mr Goenka a number of times describe his course as "the kindergarten of Dhamma". When he says that defilements and sankharas are eradicated and uses some similes to describe that point, its a long way from saying that "kamma is burned away".
Venerable Analayo is actually a highly respected and independent scholar monk. Despite you being "not convinced", I tend to think that his works should be carefully considered.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Monkey Mind
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Monkey Mind » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:00 pm

When one reads a discourse from the Buddha, there is usually a mention of the place and who the audience was. Usually a person asks a question of the Buddha, or the Buddha provides a teaching to a group of assembled monastics or laity. The context that is missing from the discourses: what was the audience doing before the discourse? What did they do after the discourse? If I understand the vipassana proponents correctly, they are suggesting that audience (the fourfold Sangha) sat in meditation. A lot of meditation. Maybe the instructions are absent from the discourses because the activity was so common-day it did not make sense to document them. I visit a lot of coffee shops, but I have never received instructions about what I am supposed to do in a coffee shop.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:31 am


Freawaru
Posts: 489
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Freawaru » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:53 am


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:07 pm

Last edited by Brizzy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:10 pm

Well, it wouldnt be the first scriptural meditation source that was applicable to both jhana and vipassana: anapanasati sutta is a case in point.
regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:55 pm


User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Vipassana

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:14 pm

I suggest you read Ven Analayo's book.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:21 pm

Last edited by Brizzy on Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 pm


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Monkey Mind
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: Vipassana

Postby Monkey Mind » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:15 pm

"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710


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