Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Post Reply
User avatar
AdvaitaJ
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:17 am
Location: Michigan, USA

Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Post by AdvaitaJ »

It occurs to me that the existence many of us lead in this technologically advanced world could seem like we are Devas and this is heaven. Imagine telling someone 2,500 years ago that you can travel 600 miles in one hour. Or that you can speak and hear someone on the other side of the planet. That you've never been hungry. That you can make things frozen or boiling hot as you wish. TV, stereos, computers, and on and on and on. :alien:

To someone living in the Buddha's time, would they not have thought our existence today qualifies as divine and that all of us who live this lifestyle today are truly benefiting from vast amounts of positive kamma?

Is there anything in the suttas that says rebirth happens immediately on death? What if "time" is literally not a factor and a positive rebirth is actually achieved by being born now or even 500 years from now (assuming we don't trash the place between now and then ;) )?

:coffee:

AdvaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.
Li Bai
User avatar
bodom
Posts: 7216
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Post by bodom »

Theres too much suffering here for this to be heaven.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Heavenstorm
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Post by Heavenstorm »

AdvaitaJ wrote:It occurs to me that the existence many of us lead in this technologically advanced world could seem like we are Devas and this is heaven. Imagine telling someone 2,500 years ago that you can travel 600 miles in one hour. Or that you can speak and hear someone on the other side of the planet. That you've never been hungry. That you can make things frozen or boiling hot as you wish. TV, stereos, computers, and on and on and on. :alien:
Wrong, [some] people living [in certain regions] are notably worse than animals. Some humans may live like devas but they are still humans and is subject to occasional illness, hunger and unfortunate accidents. The last time I read, deva is immune to illness, hunger and accidents.


[Replaced offensive generalizations — Dhammanando]
Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Post by Individual »

No, we're not devas. I had a similar speculation, myself, but when you look at Buddhist cosmology, it's pretty clear we aren't. The various cosmologies, though, I think are best understood as overlapping. The human realm does seem to be somewhat special in that we share characteristics of many realms and mentally gravitate towards different realms. So, some aspects of our life is "like" the various six realms, but despite that, we are not beings of those other realms, just as dogs and monkeys aren't humans.
Heavenstorm wrote:
AdvaitaJ wrote:It occurs to me that the existence many of us lead in this technologically advanced world could seem like we are Devas and this is heaven. Imagine telling someone 2,500 years ago that you can travel 600 miles in one hour. Or that you can speak and hear someone on the other side of the planet. That you've never been hungry. That you can make things frozen or boiling hot as you wish. TV, stereos, computers, and on and on and on. :alien:
Wrong, [some] people living [in certain regions] are notably worse than animals. Some humans may live like devas but they are still humans and is subject to occasional illness, hunger and unfortunate accidents. The last time I read, deva is immune to illness, hunger and accidents.


[Replaced offensive generalizations — Dhammanando]
I wouldn't say immune to "accidents". They aren't hungry, but they have to eat (some of them at least) and if they forget to eat, they could die.

Brahmajala Sutta
Bhikkhus! There are devas known as Khiddapadosikas who, absorbed in merry-making and pleasure-seeking for a long time, forget to take nutriment and through such forgetfulness die in that abode of the devas.
This could be called "accidental" starvation. I'm sure there's probably other ways they can die, too, like some manner of illness, dying from over-intoxication, etc., but it wouldn't correspond to "illness" as in the human realm.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22383
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Post by Ceisiwr »

If we were devas then nibbana would become even more harder to attain if not impossible as it is only in human existence, with the balance of pain and pleasure can nibbana be found.

:namaste:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
bodom
Posts: 7216
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Post by bodom »

If this is heaven then i sure dont wanna see hell.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Post Reply