Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:10 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Manapa,

I'm a few pages through... the thoughts you present are interesting but I think the link you draw between certain lines of the text and topics such as eight worldly conditions and metta meditation seem a little tenuous. What you say about them is fair enough, but I just question their relevance to the relevant part of the Satipatthana text. They seem a little "bolted on", and because they don't necessary elucidate the text, they seem to act as a diversion.

You like your exclamation marks, don't you!

Metta,
Retro! :)


I suppose I do?!!!!!!!!!! lol writing isn't a strength of mine grammar spelling takes a lot more concentration than other things, so those who helped me edit might of missed the amount as they found it quite heavy going.

I'll look at these again, if you can give some more info on the specific parts, and how so, etc
Wonder if any Bhikkhus have had a look and wonder what their thoughts are?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:58 pm

Hi Retro,
Just been looking through the work and if I am right about the section you are refering too you are being very kind when you say "seem a little tenuous" I would use far stronger words for the lack of coherent thought there. don't know how I missed it? possibly the comic thread can expand on that lol
reworked some of it but if and when you spot other parts let me know, and if you can clarify the part you were refering to that would be a help. and I took out some of the !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:

Metta
Manapa
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Manapa,

I'm a few pages through... the thoughts you present are interesting but I think the link you draw between certain lines of the text and topics such as eight worldly conditions and metta meditation seem a little tenuous. What you say about them is fair enough, but I just question their relevance to the relevant part of the Satipatthana text. They seem a little "bolted on", and because they don't necessary elucidate the text, they seem to act as a diversion.

You like your exclamation marks, don't you!

Metta,
Retro! :)
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:30 pm

Greetings Manapa,

I've read through the document and would be happy to share my thoughts on the Satipatthana practice, but not just yet, as I'm seeing and understanding the "Mental Qualities" in a slightly more profound light over the last day or two, so I might see where that takes me first.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14742
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:36 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Manapa,

I've read through the document and would be happy to share my thoughts on the Satipatthana practice, but not just yet, as I'm seeing and understanding the "Mental Qualities" in a slightly more profound light over the last day or two, so I might see where that takes me first.

Metta,
Retro. :)


let me know what you find :bow:
thanks
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:39 pm

Greetings Manapa,

Most of my thoughts went into the Satipatthana Sequencing thread, though I did just come across the following from Soma's translation of the commentary (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... wayof.html). Whilst I'm generally aware of the Buddha's use of the term "world", it wasn't until I read this that the following passage really clicked.

"Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating the feelings in the feelings, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating consciousness in consciousness, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome in this world covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."


Here's what the commentary said....

"In this world." In just this body. Here the body [kaya] is the world [loka], in the sense of a thing crumbling.

As covetousness and grief are abandoned in feeling, consciousness, and mental objects, too, the Vibhanga says: "Even the five aggregates of clinging are the world."

Covetousness stands for sense desire; and grief, for anger. As sense desire and anger are the principal hindrances, the abandoning of the hindrances is stated by the overcoming of covetousness and grief.

With covetousness are abandoned the satisfaction rooted in bodily happiness, delight in the body, and the falling into erroneous opinion which takes as real the unreal beauty, pleasure, permanence and substantiality of the body. With the overcoming of grief are abandoned the discontent rooted in bodily misery, the non-delight in the culture of body-contemplation, and the desire to turn away from facing the real ugliness, suffering, impermanence and insubstantiality of the body.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14742
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:12 am

Hi Retro
is this part the end of the sub/sections? just double checking

"Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating the feelings in the feelings, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating consciousness in consciousness, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome in this world covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:14 am

anyway finished the reediting just reading through making sure it is legible at least.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:19 am

Greetings Manapa,
Manapa wrote:Hi Retro
is this part the end of the sub/sections? just double checking


I quoted the commentary from the section that refers to the summary contained within introduction the sutta itself, but it is repeated at the each of the sections except there he translates it as "in the world" as distinct to "in this world"... I'm not sure why (yet).

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14742
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:38 am

I'll have a closer look
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:03 am

just had a look at the commentary and the whole section you mention above, it is the section which is translated by Thanissaro as

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in the Kuru country. Now there is a town of the Kurus called Kammasadhamma. There the Blessed One addressed the monks, "Monks."

"Lord," the monks replied.

The Blessed One said this: "This is the direct path for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding — in other words, the four frames of reference. Which four?

"There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.


the different translations used confused me a bit there as to where it was?
this section of the commentary you point out has given me some thoughts not 100% off what the comentary discusses but slightly different, I was going to finish reading today and repost a copy to see if it made more sense or just any sense at all but I am going to go over this part again.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby adeh » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:44 pm

In relation to the world and the body; "Rather it is in this fathom long carcass with its perceptions and its mind that I describe the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world, and the way leading to the cessation of the world." S.N. 2:26
User avatar
adeh
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:42 pm
Location: Mexico City

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:05 pm

thank-you
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:58 am

Hi Retro & All
decided to start from the beginning again, so here is the finale if anyone want to read and comment on it.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Maha-Satipatthana Sutta

Postby ricebowl » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:10 pm

I read this before, pracised this before, intend to repeat this again when a suitable opportune moment arises. Sadhu sadhu sadhu /\

" Maha-satipatthana Sutta: The Great Frames of Reference" (DN 22), translated from the Pali by Burma Piṭaka Association. Access to Insight, 17 April 2011, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bpit.html . Retrieved on 20 September 2013.
ricebowl
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

Previous

Return to Theravada Meditation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Modus.Ponens and 2 guests