Greetings,
Resources may be bad if they are:
* Factually incorrect or poorly researched
* Misleading, drawing false conclusions
* Poorly written, in style or language
* Contain no redeeming features or points of value
I don't think it's about "points of view that challenge our own" that people are talking about... it's more the above criteria.
I could list a string of Mahayana books that contain "points of view that challenge my own" but that wouldn't make them bad resources per se.
Metta,
Retro.
Bad resources
- retrofuturist
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Re: Bad resources
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Bad resources
I had a different impression, namely that it was about subjective criteria as well as these relatively objective ones that you list. Much of the thread seems to be about opinions, and I thought that's what the OP was after.retrofuturist wrote:I don't think it's about "points of view that challenge our own" that people are talking about... it's more the above criteria.
Yep, that's pretty much what I was driving at. What one person finds to be without value might churn up some unexpected bits of wisdom in the reading of another. Even poorly researched or poorly written books can raise questions or points worth considering, regardless of whether we agree with the conclusions drawn in the work. The value derives from what one brings to the reading, in my opinion.retrofuturist wrote:Resources may be bad if they ... contain no redeeming features or points of value
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
- tiltbillings
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Re: Bad resources
And the taste of some cookies is not good enough to warrant eating them. Life is too short to read bad books.Jechbi wrote: Even poorly researched or poorly written books can raise questions or points worth considering, regardless of whether we agree with the conclusions drawn in the work. The value derives from what one brings to the reading, in my opinion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Bad resources
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Resources may be bad if they are:
* Factually incorrect or poorly researched
* Misleading, drawing false conclusions
* Poorly written, in style or language
* Contain no redeeming features or points of value
I don't think it's about "points of view that challenge our own" that people are talking about... it's more the above criteria.
I could list a string of Mahayana books that contain "points of view that challenge my own" but that wouldn't make them bad resources per se.
Metta,
Retro.
"Points of view that challenge our own" are not necessarily wrong.
If we were going to include books on that basis we would never stop, and the list would include many, many books which are factually correct, well researched and well written, and extremely valuable to some people.
If I were going to alter Retro's list of criteria I would drop the last of the four (because 'nicely printed', for example, is a redeeming virtue but not a sufficient one) and replace it with 'Out of date.'
Dharma books shouldn't usually go out of date but a unique, but poor, translation might be supplanted by a better one. Or a historical study may be supplanted by the results of more recent research.
Kim
Re: Bad resources
I didn't get from the phrase "points of view that challenge our own" that it was something that made a book a bad resource. Quite the opposite. The post read: "Sometimes we're not yet capable of finding value in points of view that challenge our own. So we make the best use we can..." As described, it seems to me that the difficulty lay in the reader, not in the book: read it again later, it may be different.
I would like to know why the OP disliked the Batchelor book. I found it, overall, inspiring, and a clarifying read, and sometimes his prose was so spot on as to be quite beautiful. At other times the highfalutin' language was more than I could bear, but I shouldn't complain about having to look up words in the dictionary, I suppose.
I would like to know why the OP disliked the Batchelor book. I found it, overall, inspiring, and a clarifying read, and sometimes his prose was so spot on as to be quite beautiful. At other times the highfalutin' language was more than I could bear, but I shouldn't complain about having to look up words in the dictionary, I suppose.
Re: Bad resources
Hello all,
What is a "bad resource"?
Even the most inaccurate book, considered trash by many, can have a fortunate result.
I wouldn't be a buddhist but for coming across The Third Eye by Lobsang Rampa when I was about 13 years old and still an ardent Christian. It was a quarter of a century later, during a time of heartbreak, that I began a search for something other than Christianity - and the foundations had been laid by the fraudulent book I had read when a young teenager.
metta
Chris
What is a "bad resource"?
Even the most inaccurate book, considered trash by many, can have a fortunate result.
I wouldn't be a buddhist but for coming across The Third Eye by Lobsang Rampa when I was about 13 years old and still an ardent Christian. It was a quarter of a century later, during a time of heartbreak, that I began a search for something other than Christianity - and the foundations had been laid by the fraudulent book I had read when a young teenager.
metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
- tiltbillings
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- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Bad resources
Or it may lead one down the garden path. You just never know.Chris wrote:Hello all,
What is a "bad resource"?
Even the most inaccurate book, considered trash by many, can have a fortunate result.
Caveat lector. The nice thing about youth is that there is there is the delightfully slaphappy illusion of a considerable amount of time available, so one can read all sorts of things, and maybe get lucky. With age, however, I'd rather use my time a bit more wisely, taking a bit more care in what I read, having read my share of crap books.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Bad resources
Hello Tilt,
Agree.
At any age, life is only as long as your out-breath ~ if you don't breathe in again.
metta
Chris
Agree.
At any age, life is only as long as your out-breath ~ if you don't breathe in again.
metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
-
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- Location: By the River Thames near London.
Re: Bad resources
Not to dwell in aversion, but...in the spirit of the o p, anything by Thich Naht Hahn has me looking out for a wobbly table while rinsing my mouth with lemon juice to get rid of the sickly taste.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- retrofuturist
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Re: Bad resources
Greetings,
I found "The Triple Gem and The Way to Social Harmony" by Pyinnyathiha to be virtually unreadable, both in terms of the language use and lack of coherency.
It's rare that I don't get through a Dhamma book, but I could just tell this one wasn't worth the effort... as Tilt said, time is tight, best to be reading that which is most likely to be useful.
Metta,
Retro.
I found "The Triple Gem and The Way to Social Harmony" by Pyinnyathiha to be virtually unreadable, both in terms of the language use and lack of coherency.
It's rare that I don't get through a Dhamma book, but I could just tell this one wasn't worth the effort... as Tilt said, time is tight, best to be reading that which is most likely to be useful.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Bad resources
I suppose we can surmise from the replies so far that 'bad' is relative... hence, the colloquialism 'so bad it is good'.
OK now I am just being silly... bad joke, my bad... oops, I should stop using that word.
OK now I am just being silly... bad joke, my bad... oops, I should stop using that word.
With metta,
zavk
zavk
"Buddhism without beliefs"
but zavk, i like to read that book, if someone wants to throw that out please tell me first!
Re: Bad resources
Same here. To this day I wonder what would have happened if I had not stumbled across The Third Eye so early on. I suspect I owe an embarrassingly large debt to Lobsang Rampa and this screwball book.Chris wrote:Hello all,
What is a "bad resource"?
Even the most inaccurate book, considered trash by many, can have a fortunate result.
I wouldn't be a buddhist but for coming across The Third Eye by Lobsang Rampa when I was about 13 years old and still an ardent Christian. It was a quarter of a century later, during a time of heartbreak, that I began a search for something other than Christianity - and the foundations had been laid by the fraudulent book I had read when a young teenager.
metta
Chris
Re: Bad resources
Hi Catmoon and Chris
On another thread I asked if it would be fair to say your Kamma leads you to find a teaching. Bhikku Pesala suggested that spiritual inclination has everything to do with Kamma. If so, maybe that lousy book you read as a teenager should not get credit for your current happy state as Buddhists.
My definition of a bad resource is a book that:
A) Perhaps contains one or two good ideas, but many other nonsensical ones that you follow, only to find later were wrong,
B) Focusses too narrowly one one aspect of the path, thereby presenting the reader with a skewed perspective,
C) Tries to re-define the subject in light of psychology or "self-help"
D) Is just plain wrong!
Not too much stuff in the D category, but enough to be wary. And lots of others in the A, B and C. I know, I've read most of them, or so it seems!
On another thread I asked if it would be fair to say your Kamma leads you to find a teaching. Bhikku Pesala suggested that spiritual inclination has everything to do with Kamma. If so, maybe that lousy book you read as a teenager should not get credit for your current happy state as Buddhists.
My definition of a bad resource is a book that:
A) Perhaps contains one or two good ideas, but many other nonsensical ones that you follow, only to find later were wrong,
B) Focusses too narrowly one one aspect of the path, thereby presenting the reader with a skewed perspective,
C) Tries to re-define the subject in light of psychology or "self-help"
D) Is just plain wrong!
Not too much stuff in the D category, but enough to be wary. And lots of others in the A, B and C. I know, I've read most of them, or so it seems!
Re: Bad resources
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_