Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

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SarathW
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by SarathW »

Thanks.
I am very pleased about your enthusiasm in Abhidamma.
I like your Blogg idea.
:D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by theY »

SarathW wrote:Thanks.
I am very pleased about your enthusiasm in Abhidamma.
I like your Blogg idea.
:D
My idea is a part of tipitaka memorizer knowledge. I also know about western and thai behaviour in dhamma study.

Reading made important idea lost from reader. Memorizing let losting gone.

We will understand tipitaka as it is, if we memorize it in right step.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
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Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html
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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by ancientbuddhism »

The pāḷi māna is less ‘pride’ as ‘conception’ eg. Mahāniddesa 15 “Māno means conception, the state of conception; hautiness, loftiness, a distinction, a holding-up, the desire for prominence.” (“Yo evarūpo māno maññanā maññitattaṃ uṇṇati uṇṇamo dhajo saṃpaggāho, ketukamyatā cittassa, ayaṃ vuccati māno”). Thusly asmimāna is the “notion ‘I am’” with reference to the pañcakkhandhā.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by theY »

ancientbuddhism wrote:The pāḷi māna is less ‘pride’ as ‘conception’ eg. Mahāniddesa 15 “Māno means conception, the state of conception; hautiness, loftiness, a distinction, a holding-up, the desire for prominence.” (“Yo evarūpo māno maññanā maññitattaṃ uṇṇati uṇṇamo dhajo saṃpaggāho, ketukamyatā cittassa, ayaṃ vuccati māno”). Thusly asmimāna is the “notion ‘I am’” with reference to the pañcakkhandhā.
See above pali, mana is seperate self from another. It is not only pride. However anagami has no ditthi, but anagami still has mano. So mana is not notion "atta".

People who have mana think "anicca" less than arahanta. This is really important key word.

Public marker (tilakkhana) let arahan know "I am not difference from the other".
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
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Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html
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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by ancientbuddhism »

theY,
I was responding to the OP with reference to anicca, sakkāya, māna. It seems you are having an entirely different discussion.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by theY »

ancientbuddhism wrote:The pāḷi māna is less ‘pride’ as ‘conception’ eg. Mahāniddesa 15 “Māno means conception, the state of conception; hautiness, loftiness, a distinction, a holding-up, the desire for prominence.” (“Yo evarūpo māno maññanā maññitattaṃ uṇṇati uṇṇamo dhajo saṃpaggāho, ketukamyatā cittassa, ayaṃ vuccati māno”). Thusly asmimāna is the “notion ‘I am’” with reference to the pañcakkhandhā.
Everything has own conception. Arahan also compare state of being between themselves and the other, such as buddha compared himself with veranjabrahma, etc.

Your answer is good but it is not enough.

I telling you the way to know mana as it is. It is the way that tipitaka taught you. But you decide to mark it as "OP".

Mahaniddesa taught you a defination of mana. But you can't understand it completely right, if you don't understand it by your vipassana wisdom and take dhamma step by step in tipitaka memorizing learning system.

Reading is not enough.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html
SarathW
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by SarathW »

SarathW wrote:Now I heard from few Sri Lankan monks that the word Anatta does not relate to Sakkaya-ditthi or Mana.
Anatta means the inability to stop the process of impermanence and Stress (Dukkha)

I have lot of respect for the knowledge of the monk in this video.
Unfortunately it is in Sinhala language.
I just post it here to substantiate my source.

https://o/watch?v=Do2gKV91Bc0
In Video 18 this monk explain that taking five aggregate (on which we have no control over it and dependently originated) as I, me, and myself as Sakkaya-ditthi. (wrong view)
So it appears Anicca means the entropy. (going from order to disorder and vice versa)
We do not have the control over the objects subject to o change (Anatta).
So taking these object as I me and myself is the Sakkaya-Ditthi.
So Anatta and wrong view are two different things.
Mana is the result of wrong view.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by ancientbuddhism »

SarathW wrote: …taking five aggregate (on which we have no control over it and dependently originated) as I, me, and myself as Sakkaya-ditthi.
Yes, sakkāya-diṭṭhi is taking up the pañcakkhandhā as atta or asmi, both directly indicating the eternal Ātman.
SarathW wrote:So it appears Anicca means the entropy. (going from order to disorder and vice versa)
We do not have the control over the objects subject to o change (Anatta).
So taking these object as I me and myself is the Sakkaya-Ditthi.
I’m not sure what you mean by entropy, the simplest explanation of which is the effect one gets when pissing on a hot radiator. But if it makes anicca clear for you why quibble. The order you gave is correct though; realisation of anicca is the contemplative perception of it (aniccasaññā), which ultimately leads to Nibbāna.
  • aniccasaññā bhāvetabbā asmimānasamugghātāya. aniccasaññino hi, meghiya, anattasaññā saṇṭhāti, anattasaññī asmimānasamugghātaṃ pāpuṇāti diṭṭheva dhamme nibbāna”nti.

    “Perception of impermanence should be developed for the removal of the notion ‘I am’. Because of perception of impermanence, Meghiya, one is established in perception of no-self, with perception of no-self one comes to the removal of the notion ‘I am’ and knows the state of Nibbāna.” Sambodhipakkhiya Sutta (AN. 9.1), Meghiya Sutta(AN.9.3)

SarathW wrote:So Anatta and wrong view are two different things.
Mana is the result of wrong view.
Anatta is the most significant perception prior to Nibbāna, thus it is a perception of ultimate right-view. Māna are just presumptions of ‘self’ or other things, that when unchecked lead to wrong-view’.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by theY »

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html
theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by theY »

SarathW wrote:Perhaps the meaning of Anatta is best explained in the following Sutta.
Anatta-lakkhana Sutta

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html
Translation Problem: Self=Niyaka-Ajjhatta=Attano, Other Person=Bahiddhā=Parassa, But Attā=4 Members
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html
theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Post by theY »

Let's See: How It Hard To Let People Get In "Self" Word Of Diṭṭhi And Māna
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=28981
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html
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