Hi guys,
I am not sure if I can call myself a true Buddhist.
There is no doubt Buddhists do not believe in God. A deformed crashed car is probably not arranged by anyone, but is 100 floors building not created by anyone?
Human beings generally have very complex nervous system, our physical and mental work together harmoniously in the so called a human being body. Human anatomy is not so simple but they're working "in order." We all have two eyes in our face, and other senses as well and they're generally located in the same area. Our planet has abundance natural resources, this planet has so many foods i.e. fruits, vegetables, a sun and a moon, they're all make lives become possible.
How can we confidently say these all are not created by anyone, does anyone have any thoughts?
No Creator in Buddhism
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
'We' are the creators according to Buddhism. Creation isn't a singular event, but something that's going on all of the time. It's the belief in an underlying self which spawns these soul/God ideas. If there isn't a soul, then there's no reason for a God IMO.
I am by no means trying to quell your doubts about God, but we have to be careful to understand what the Buddha taught. We don't want to start off on the wrong foot. I don't believe that attempts to prove/disprove God have gotten people very far on any path. Generally, it's created more strife, confusion, and outright violence.
Cheers!
Ryan
I am by no means trying to quell your doubts about God, but we have to be careful to understand what the Buddha taught. We don't want to start off on the wrong foot. I don't believe that attempts to prove/disprove God have gotten people very far on any path. Generally, it's created more strife, confusion, and outright violence.
Cheers!
Ryan
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya
"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"
"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
Unless Buddhism says we are eternal spirits then no that is not what Buddhism says.ryanM wrote:'We' are the creators according to Buddhism.
To me this statement contradicts your first assertion.ryanM wrote:It's the belief in an underlying self which spawns these soul/God ideas. If there isn't a soul, then there's no reason for a God IMO.
To me "outright violence" has never resulted from belief in God's existence but rather from the belief that he commanded that everyone must be part of a particular club that performs certain rituals. Its the exclusivism of ritualistic religion that results in violence, and this could probably arise even in a ritualistic religion that has no god.ryanM wrote:I don't believe that attempts to prove/disprove God have gotten people very far on any path. Generally, it's created more strife, confusion, and outright violence.
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
Natural selection & evolution explains all that.D1W1 wrote:Human beings generally have very complex nervous system, our physical and mental work together harmoniously in the so called a human being body. Human anatomy is not so simple but they're working "in order." We all have two eyes in our face, and other senses as well and they're generally located in the same area. Our planet has abundance natural resources, this planet has so many foods i.e. fruits, vegetables, a sun and a moon, they're all make lives become possible.
How can we confidently say these all are not created by anyone, does anyone have any thoughts?
Now, no "God" in Buddhism, but there sure are "angels" (devas & Brahmas), albeit mortal.
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
Isn't animal sacrifice outright violence?To me "outright violence" has never resulted from belief in God's existence
Isn't non tolerance a result of the belief in a creator god?
Whose name all the wars are going on in this world at this moment?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
Correct me if I'm wrong but is not animal sacrifice a ritual? (I.e. referring to the part of what I said that you didn't quote: "...but rather from the belief that he commanded that everyone must be part of a particular club that performs certain rituals.")SarathW wrote:Isn't animal sacrifice outright violence?To me "outright violence" has never resulted from belief in God's existence
No. Its from the belief that God created the world in order to receive ritual worship rather than in order to provide a bio-diverse world for multitudinous life-forms to enjoy.SarathW wrote:Isn't non tolerance a result of the belief in a creator god?
Ritual. Its all about ritual clothing on women and ritualistic times for prayer etc. Its not about mere Deism.SarathW wrote:Whose name all the wars are going on in this world at this moment?
Last edited by davidbrainerd on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
The Buddha was only concerned with ending the creation of suffering. The creator of suffering is ignorance & craving.
The Buddha was not concerned with the creation of the physical world. However, following the principles of cause & effect (idappaccayatā), natural law (dhamma-niyama) & elements (dhatu) in Buddhism, it is inferred the physical world is created according to various laws & principles of physics, chemistry, biology, etc. The 'creator' is strictly natural & impersonal.
This link might help: http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddh ... iyamas.htm
The Buddha was not concerned with the creation of the physical world. However, following the principles of cause & effect (idappaccayatā), natural law (dhamma-niyama) & elements (dhatu) in Buddhism, it is inferred the physical world is created according to various laws & principles of physics, chemistry, biology, etc. The 'creator' is strictly natural & impersonal.
This link might help: http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddh ... iyamas.htm
- Bhikkhu Pesala
- Posts: 4647
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
If they were, then we would have to ask "Who created the creator?"D1W1 wrote:How can we confidently say these all are not created by anyone, does anyone have any thoughts?
The Buddha taught the law of cause and effect. There are five natural laws (niyāma):
- Climate (utu)
- Seeds or genetics (bija)
- Volitional actions (kamma)
- Natural order (Dhamma)
- Thought or consciousness (citta).
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
You're making the irreducible complexity and intelligent design arguments. They aren't accepted in the scientific community.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
None of that is relevant to your Buddhist practice unless you make it so and this is IMO, a tangential mistake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
None of that is relevant to your Buddhist practice unless you make it so and this is IMO, a tangential mistake.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
There's no requirement for a designer in the equation. The Buddha taught about Paticcasamuppada, all dhammas ("things") arise in dependence upon other dhammas: "if this exists, that exists; if this ceases to exist, that also ceases to exist." So the obvious problem for those who believe in a designer is a recursive problem: who designs the desginer? who designs the designer of the desginer? so on until infinity. If they say the designer has no predecessor, then it doesn't make sense to even require a designer to start out with or why there is just 1 single desgigner.D1W1 wrote:Human beings generally have very complex nervous system, our physical and mental work together harmoniously in the so called a human being body. Human anatomy is not so simple but they're working "in order." We all have two eyes in our face, and other senses as well and they're generally located in the same area. Our planet has abundance natural resources, this planet has so many foods i.e. fruits, vegetables, a sun and a moon, they're all make lives become possible.
How can we confidently say these all are not created by anyone, does anyone have any thoughts?
It'd seem like a miracle regarding the human body only if one assumes that it pops into existence all of a sudden out of thin air. But it didn't work that way. It's a product after a tremendously long period of evolution, adjustment and adaptation to turn something simple into something complex. And it's still far from perfect. As Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson's humor: "Down there between our legs, it's like an entertainment complex in the middle of a sewage system. Who designed that?" Similar reasoning can be used to explain about earth. It'd only seem like a miracle if there's just 1 single earth with all the necessary conditions for life. Again, it doens't work that way. For every earth with favorable conditions for live, there're tons of other that do not.
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
I doubt rebirth or Buddhas are accepted in the so-called science community either.Mkoll wrote:You're making the irreducible complexity and intelligent design arguments. They aren't accepted in the scientific community.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
None of that is relevant to your Buddhist practice unless you make it so and this is IMO, a tangential mistake.
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
Arise from where, from what? The obvious problem is that things that arise can only arise from other earlier non-arisen thing or things. Buddhism seems to refuse to address this issue and pretends it doesn't exist. On the other hand both theists and atheists actually address the question. To the theist God is the non-arisen thing from which all that arises arises; to the atheist eternal matter is the non-arisen thing from which all that arises arises. The Buddhist, however, just throws the word Paticcasamuppada out like magic ignoring the issue that stuff don't arise from nothing.santa100 wrote: There's no requirement for a designer in the equation. The Buddha taught about Paticcasamuppada, all dhammas ("things") arise in dependence upon other dhammas: "if this exists, that exists; if this ceases to exist, that also ceases to exist."
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
Obviously not. The purpose of my post was to give the OP more information about his arguments, which I hope will help him see why they are poor ones. Perhaps my comment about the scientific community was unnecessary; however, that doesn't make it any less true.davidbrainerd wrote:I doubt rebirth or Buddhas are accepted in the so-called science community either.Mkoll wrote:You're making the irreducible complexity and intelligent design arguments. They aren't accepted in the scientific community.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
None of that is relevant to your Buddhist practice unless you make it so and this is IMO, a tangential mistake.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
If this was absolutely true, why are the medical & psychological industries so large & lucrative? Before the current era of medical technology, why were there so many diseases & why did so many women & children perish in childbirth?D1W1 wrote:Human beings generally have very complex nervous system, our physical and mental work together harmoniously in the so called a human being body. Human anatomy is not so simple but they're working "in order."
If this was absolutely true, why are there famines, starvation & completion for natural resources?Our planet has abundance natural resources, this planet has so many foods i.e. fruits, vegetables, a sun and a moon, they're all make lives become possible.
The very fact that the above things are subject to disease & disorder shows either there is no 'intelligent designer' or otherwise the godly 'creator' is cruel & sadistic.D1W1 wrote:How can we confidently say these all are not created by anyone, does anyone have any thoughts?
Re: No Creator in Buddhism
No they do not. The theists only provide the God-of-the-gaps answer and the atheist only provide an unproven theory. At least the Buddhist is honest and limit the scope with enough parameters to do what s/he needs to do. It's not pretension. It's honesty.davidbrainerd wrote:On the other hand both theists and atheists actually address the question. To the theist God is the non-arisen thing from which all that arises arises; to the atheist eternal matter is the non-arisen thing from which all that arises arises. The Buddhist, however, just throws the word Paticcasamuppada out like magic ignoring the issue that stuff don't arise from nothing.