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Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)? - Dhamma Wheel

Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:01 pm

Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)

It appears above three words are used inter-changeably.
Are those the same or different?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

paul
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby paul » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:41 pm

Anatta is an overall term; sakkya-ditthi is personality-belief, a lower fetter tying to the sensual world; mana is conceit, a higher fetter binding to the fine-material and immaterial worlds.--Samyojana, Buddhist Dictionary, Ven. Nyanatiloka.

SarathW
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby SarathW » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:20 am

Thanks Paul
Isn't Mana is relevant to sensual realm as well?
(I am higher, lower or equal)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby theY » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:33 pm

Atta is a type of paññatti (unreal), that can not force anything, but puthujana thinking wrong, by Sakkaya-ditthi, as "Atta is real. Atta have their power to force something. Atta can live forever, never die".

Anatta is real. Everything is anatta. Nothing have a real power. Everything can arise because of paccaya (factor).

Sakkaya-ditthi (self view) is cetasika, that thinking wrong "Atta is real. Atta have their power to force something. Atta can live forever, never die". Sakkaya-ditthi must arise together with lobha cetasika (desiring in atta).

Mana (pride/faze) is cetasika, that thinking "Self/Self-relating khandha are difference from another khandha. Although each khandha are difference from the other khandha, but every khandha are the same as "anicca, dukkha, anatta". Self/Self-relating is not the only one, that difference or being "anicca, dukkha, anatta".

Mana maybe not wrong as Sakkaya-ditthi. But it also arising with lobha, too.

http://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... -mana.html
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

paul
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby paul » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:40 pm

"Isn't Mana is relevant to sensual realm as well?"

After the completion of the first three paths, there is no return to the sensuous sphere, so in the sutta context the five higher fetters including mana, conceit about meditational achievements (including inferiority) refer only to the fine-material and immaterial realms.
Such conceit about the practice exists in the sensual realm but it is insignificant compared with the grosser forms of ego resulting in desire and aversion.

santa100
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby santa100 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:03 am


SarathW
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:41 am

Now I heard from few Sri Lankan monks that the word Anatta does not relate to Sakkaya-ditthi or Mana.
Anatta means the inability to stop the process of impermanence and Stress (Dukkha)

I have lot of respect for the knowledge of the monk in this video.
Unfortunately it is in Sinhala language.
I just post it here to substantiate my source.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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piotr
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby piotr » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:37 pm

Conceit or pride are not the best translations for māna since in the English they mean only "unduly favorable estimation of one's own abilities or worth; overly positive self-regard." Whereas māna in the Pāli means thinking about oneself as better, equal or worse from others.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby theY » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

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piotr
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby piotr » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:50 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby theY » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:12 pm

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:52 am

Perhaps the meaning of Anatta is best explained in the following Sutta.
Anatta-lakkhana Sutta

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby theY » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:24 am

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

SarathW
Posts: 8014
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:42 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

theY
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:07 pm
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby theY » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:29 am

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

SarathW
Posts: 8014
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:58 am

Thanks.
I am very pleased about your enthusiasm in Abhidamma.
I like your Blogg idea.
:D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby theY » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:45 am

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby ancientbuddhism » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:56 am

The pāḷi māna is less ‘pride’ as ‘conception’ eg. “Māno means conception, the state of conception; hautiness, loftiness, a distinction, a holding-up, the desire for prominence.” (“Yo evarūpo māno maññanā maññitattaṃ uṇṇati uṇṇamo dhajo saṃpaggāho, ketukamyatā cittassa, ayaṃ vuccati māno”). Thusly asmimāna is the “notion ‘I am’” with reference to the pañcakkhandhā.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


theY
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Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby theY » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:33 am

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

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ancientbuddhism
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Location: Cyberia

Re: Anatta, Sakkaya-ditthi (self view),Mana (pride)?

Postby ancientbuddhism » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:28 pm

theY,
I was responding to the OP with reference to anicca, sakkāya, māna. It seems you are having an entirely different discussion.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)



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