the great vegetarian debate

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

At least this thread seems to be growing organically with the help of loads of bull manure.

[DNS]

At least this thread seems to be growing organically with the help of loads of bull manure.

Lots of BS being spread around throughout this thread.

[DNS]

Certainly it is possible to grow produce without animal manures but it is a much more difficult thing to accomplish and substantially increases the labor required. I think that unless one grows one's own produce one is unlikely to find produce which is grown without animal manures. I may be wrong on this as I have not contacted any organic growers anywhere but I have been an organic grower myself for many decades and have seen how ubiquitous the use of animal manure is in organic growing. It is true that some (perhaps most) organic field crops can be grown effectively using green manuring....things like grains mostly....but when it comes to growing vegetables where a much richer soil is needed it takes a lot of work to cut a green manure crop and then concentrate it into a smaller area to develop the richness of the soil.
Again, I have not done a survey of organic produce available commercially. It would be interesting if people in the USA who know of any organic growers if they use animal manures or not.

Bottom line for vegans perhaps is should you eat organic if it was grown with animal manure or would it be better for vegans who are not sure to stick with chemically grown produce?
chownah

Yes, apparently there is a way to grow without using manure, but not sure how widespread that use is. You make a good point that vegans who like to use no animals or animal by-products may actually be using some with the way their vegetables are grown. I know they don't like to use leather, eggs, cosmetics tested on animals, other products containing animal by-products, so I wonder how many of them realize that their vegetables are grown with manure?

In a (theoretical) lacto-ovo vegetarian world, there would be no issue as long as cheese and dairy product consumption remained as it is now, there would be plenty of manure from the dairy cows. For a (theoretical) vegan world, there might be a problem or crops could be grown without manure but I assume the cost would be much higher.

[Lombardi4]

Greetings,

My approach is actually similar to that of the Sangha... I'll eat meat if it's given to me, but I won't request it or purchase it etc. My wife knows that my preference is vegetarian, but I don't expect her to go making separate meals just for me when she does the cooking. I also have a "well, you can't bring it back to life now" mentality when at barbecues, parties, functions, group dinners etc.

Metta,
Retro.

Paul,

What a wonderful attitude!

I recently became a vegetarian (more than a month ago). I thought about going vegan, too.

I have done very well so far, and only one slip up a few days ago when I bought myself a burger. I never knew I can do without meat, but it seems it's easy.

But when I saw your post above, I thought that that wouldn't be a bad idea to observe. Because if someone offered me something (for food), I would offend them if I refuse. I think I'm going to do the same.

[justindesilva]

After going through this thread and listening to what Lord budda advised the monks to eat meat if it is not killed by his own self or if it is not killed meant by others for his self and ................, I started been a non vegetarian with such principles as advised by lord budda as presented by so called priests today.
I realised that I was slowly getting dragged in to the taste of meat and fish. Greed for taste.
I now have reverted been a vegetarian so that I can maintain non greed for taste. This helps meditation too.
With metta.

[D1W1]

Hi all,

As the title says can Buddhists eat beef? Can't find anything about eating beef in the Sutta but why some Buddhists refrain from eating beef?

[SarathW]

As the title says can Buddhists eat beef?

Yes.
Monks are not allowed to eat meat if they know that the killing is done specially for them or seen the killing.

why some Buddhists refrain from eating beef?

Perhaps the influence of Jains or Hindus.
I some times have disgust for eating meat even though I still eat them.
I think when you develop sensitivity you will not eat the meat.
Eating meat is a learned habit.
Some people have disliking for certain meat.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

A lot of Burmese Buddhists refrain from eating beef.

See Ledi Sayādaw's Cow Dhamma (from the Goṇasurā Dīpanī) for the reasoning behind this.

They are rarely vegetarian or vegan, and eat quite a lot of fish and prawns. They also eat chicken, duck, pork, and goat's meat.

[D1W1]

why some Buddhists refrain from eating beef?

Perhaps the influence of Jains or Hindus.
I some times have disgust for eating meat even though I still eat them.
I think when you develop sensitivity you will not eat the meat.
Eating meat is a learned habit.
Some people have disliking for certain meat.

I also can't find anything about eating beef in the Sutta.
I am not a meat lover either but sometimes I think I do need to eat meat.

[D1W1]

A lot of Burmese Buddhists refrain from eating beef.

See Ledi Sayādaw's Cow Dhamma (from the Goṇasurā Dīpanī) for the reasoning behind this.

They are rarely vegetarian or vegan, and eat quite a lot of fish and prawns. They also eat chicken, duck, pork, and goat's meat.

I think maybe it's cultural rather than Buddhist teaching, what do you think Bhante?

[pilgrim]

There are a number of Mahayana sutras like the Lotus Sutra which criticise eating beef. Many Buddhist countries were also Hindu before Buddhism supplanted it.

[justindesilva]

For buddhists beef pork venison etc are all meat and to my mind should not be eaten. All meat is made by killing an animal who loves its life like ourselves. The fact that they are born in an animal realm does not make them our food. We beings in a manner are all equal in this universe except for the fact that we are following our kamma by been born as an ox pig or deer etc.
Beef is forbidden as food by Hindus. But I am aware that while some Hindus are total vegetarians some eat goat meat. Beef anyway is totally rejected by Hindus as it is connected to deity rada Krishna by divinity.

[SDC]

...Jivaka, I say there are three instances in which meat should not eaten: when it is seen, heard or suspect [that the living being has been slaughtered for oneself]. I say that it should not be eaten in these three instances. I say that there are three instances in which meat may be eaten: when it is not seen, not heard and not suspected [that the living being has been slaughtered for oneself]. I say that meat may be eaten in these there instances...

(added emphasis)

[santa100]

As the title says can Buddhists eat beef?

From MN 55:

Jīvaka, I say that there are three instances in which meat should not be eaten: when it is seen, heard, or suspected [that the living being has been slaughtered for oneself]. I say that meat should not be eaten in these three instances. I say that there are three instances in which meat may be eaten: when it is not seen, not heard, and not suspected [that the living being has been slaughtered for oneself]. I say that meat may be eaten in these three instances.

[SDC]

As the title says can Buddhists eat beef?

From MN 55:

Jīvaka, I say that there are three instances in which meat should not be eaten: when it is seen, heard, or suspected [that the living being has been slaughtered for oneself]. I say that meat should not be eaten in these three instances. I say that there are three instances in which meat may be eaten: when it is not seen, not heard, and not suspected [that the living being has been slaughtered for oneself]. I say that meat may be eaten in these three instances.

Hey, I just posted that exact verse. I hope you don't have me on your foe/ignore list.