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Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso - Dhamma Wheel

Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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cooran
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Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby cooran » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:49 pm

Hello all,

I found this surprise on the Buddhist Society of Western Australia website.

BSWA News : Bhikkhuni Ordination Talk Now Live
Apologies for the technical glitch earlier today, the audio recording announcing the full ordination of our Bhikkhunis is now active.
Please partake in the joyous occasion of the re-establishment of the original lineage of nuns (Bhikkhunis) -established by the Bhudda 2000+ years ago - right here in Western Australia by Ajahn Brahm.
http://www.bswa.org/modules/news/

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:11 pm

Its always fresh and new no matter how many times one is privileged to watch it.


:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:17 pm

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cooran
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby cooran » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:22 pm

I'm not sure about the composition of the group ordaining the Bhikkhunis in the previous attempts. Does anyone know?
Were they all Theravada sangha? What about this time? Too long for me to download the video.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:28 pm

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gavesako
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby gavesako » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:48 pm

This is information gleaned from the internet:

"About 100 lay people were there who had
all been asked beforehand to keep it a very low key event but that the the dual
ordination itself was a "magical event" with Ayya Thathaloka as the
preceptor.
The nuns came over from Dhammasara to Bodhinyana around
5pm. the ceremony started at 7.15pm. There were about 100 lay supporters
…. The bhikkhuni sangha who graced the occasion came from the
U.S.(3), Indonesia (2), Vietnam (1) and
Melbourne(2). Ayya Tathaaloka was the preceptor. I also met
and spoke to the 2 Indonesian bhikkhunis, Ayya
Santini and Silawati. Ayya Santini who is the senior of the two is lovely too …
The dual ordination was truly magical. You could feel
the energy of support and encouragement from not just the bhikkuni and
bhikkhu sangha but also the laity. Members of the laity were so eager to
bow to the newly ordained bhikkhunis as soon as they were prounounced duly
ordained. There were hearty choruses of Sadhus! It was way past 10pm when
we started to leave.”
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
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BlackBird
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby BlackBird » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:03 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:39 pm

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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:19 pm

:oops:

Jack correctly pointed out to me that she passed away in 1997.

It must have been 1988 then! I transcribed the wrong date in her bio article at Dhamma Wiki. I do have her as passing in 1997, but ordination a year later would have been one tremendous feat! I'll have to re-check, but the correct date must be 1988.

She was ordained at Hsi Lai Temple in Los Angeles and the head monk was a Mahayana monk, but allowed those receiving the ordination to choose Theravada or Mahayana and she chose Theravada. The ordinations in 1996 were the first with Theravada bhikkhus present.
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:22 am

For issues like this, I actually sometimes think that it is a little bit misleading to refer to the preceptors, whether bhiksus or bhiksunis, as "Mahayana" monks or nuns. After all, their preceptor status is due to their bhiksu/ni upasampada, and nothing to do with their bodhisattva precepts. It may be more appropriate to refer to them primarily as "Dharmagupta" bhiksu/nis, with a note of the Mahayana bodhisattva precepts, both through the Chinese traditions, as really quite secondary.

Interesting to note that the above Venerables are thus technically my Dharma sisters, hehe. :) (We have the same upadhyaya.)
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby BudSas » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:53 am


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gavesako
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby gavesako » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:22 am

In this new text Ajahn Sujato provides some in-depth research into Vinaya (in particular Bhikkhuni issues) and how Vinaya is interpreted:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19458289/Bhik ... ya-Studies

Bhikkhuni Vinaya Studies
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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cooran
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby cooran » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:39 am

Hello all,

It remains to be seen whether this action by Ajahn Brahms causes division in the worldwide Theravada Ordained Sangha, and whether it actually has positive or negative affects in the years to come.

Maybe a slower process (which was being worked through) with more consulation and eventual consensus would have been a better alternative?

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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BlackBird
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby BlackBird » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:44 am

I wonder what the reasons are for not reinstating the Bhikkhuni order in Thailand and Burma?

:anjali:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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mikenz66
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:55 am


being5
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby being5 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:59 am

Some months ago I listened with interest to three recordings of Ajahn Sujato addressing a gathering at BSWA where the proposed Bhikkhuni ordination was being discussed. In one talk each of the nuns speaks briefly about what full ordination would mean to her.



being5

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mikenz66
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:06 am


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gavesako
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby gavesako » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:17 pm

The problem with the transmissions of ordination lineage is that, even in the Theravada tradition, nobody knows for sure whether the lineage was once broken or not. It has happened several times that in one country no bhikkhus to perform a new ordination could be found anymore, and so a group of bhikkhus from elsewhere had to be imported. However, whether those bhikkhus were all legally ordained or not is in itself uncertain, and the historians who wrote the chronicles about these events would not have cast doubts on such matters. Histories were always written for a specific purpose, to celebrate a particular lineage or the king as a patron, so they will necessarily be biased and not totally reliable. This is good to bear in mind when questioning the Chinese transmission.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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gavesako
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Postby gavesako » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:24 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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bodhabill
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Bhikkhuni Ordination

Postby bodhabill » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:12 am

It is with immense joy that it has been annouced that the first Bhikkhuni Ordination in Australia in the Theravadin tradition in full accordance with the Pali Vinaya was held in Perth on October 22nd at Bodhinyana Monastery

It is with sadness that on Sunday 1 November at Wat Pah Pong (the head monastery of the Ajahn Chah tradition) Ajahn Brahm and his monastery Bodhinyana were formally expelled from Wat Pah Pong for performing this Bhikkhuni Ordination

As a true believer not only in the equality of women but also that the Buddha did create Bhikkhuni's as part of the Sangha I find this reaction astonishing and unfathomable

With Metta
Bill
"Complaining is finding faults, wisdom is finding solutions" Ajahn Brahm


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