The causes for wisdom

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

robertk wrote:http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 97#p307697
Has some posts about what can be mistaken for mindfulness
Certainly the thread you linked points to some serious problematics around the notion of mindfulness, but as we see in this thread you initiated the Sujin-notions of mindfulness, which you extol, also exemplify their own serious problematics in what is meant by mindfulness.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll »

tiltbillings wrote:
robertk wrote:http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 97#p307697
Has some posts about what can be mistaken for mindfulness
Certainly the thread you linked points to some serious problematics around the notion of mindfulness, but as we see in this thread you initiated the Sujin-notions of mindfulness, which you extol, also exemplify their own serious problematics in what is meant by mindfulness.
What was this thread about, anyway? And what are "Sujin-notions of mindfulness"?

I don't really expect an answer to my first question, BTW, unless you can sum it up into a TLDR version.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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mikenz66
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by mikenz66 »

Mkoll wrote: What was this thread about, anyway? And what are "Sujin-notions of mindfulness"?
A quick summary is that any kind of "trying" to develop mindfulness is deluded and counter productive.

Perhaps this thread spells it out more clearly:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 8&#p216888

:anjali:
Mike
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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll »

mikenz66 wrote:
Mkoll wrote: What was this thread about, anyway? And what are "Sujin-notions of mindfulness"?
A quick summary is that any kind of "trying" to develop mindfulness is deluded and counter productive.

Perhaps this thread spells it out more clearly:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 8&#p216888

:anjali:
Mike
No right effort needed, huh? Sounds like cherry picking the path, to put it nicely.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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mikenz66
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by mikenz66 »

Hmm, you really need to read the threads, because it is more nuanced than that, and the argument revolves around what control is possible over the conditions that lead to right effort, etc.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 00#p218121

:anjali:
Mike
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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll »

mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, you really need to read the threads,
:jawdrop:

:computerproblem:

:alien:

:hello:

~~~

:focus: whatever that is now...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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robertk
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by robertk »

Mkoll wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, you really need to read the threads,
:jawdrop:

:computerproblem:

:alien:

:hello:

~~~
.
I couldn't understand the meaning, could you explain?
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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll »

robertk wrote:I couldn't understand the meaning, could you explain?
It was a rather vague joke having to do with feigned and exaggerated indignation that only I probably got because I made it up. I'll explain anyway.

:jawdrop: :computerproblem: = surprised and indignant that mikenz66 would suggest that I read this gigantic thread: "omg no way"

:alien: = my butting out: "im outta here"

:hello: = my waving goodbye: "laterz"
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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mikenz66
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by mikenz66 »

Mkoll wrote:surprised and indignant that mikenz66 would suggest that I read this gigantic thread: "omg no way"
I don't see any need to be indignant. I think it's an interesting discussion that addresses the important question of to what extent we actually have control over conditions from various points of view. While I have some disagreements with the Sujin model that Robert favours, if you look at the links I gave above, especially my partial transcription of a talk by Ajahn Amaro, you'll see that other teachers do discuss problems with tackling bhavana with wrong view.

:anjali:
Mike
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

Mkoll wrote: :jawdrop: :computerproblem: = surprised and indignant that mikenz66 would suggest that I read this gigantic thread: "omg no way"
Actually, just read the first 20 pages of this, which is not too much, and likely you will be jawdropping and omg-ing with actual indignation. After that just jump in anywhere and read a bit here and there and
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll »

mikenz66 wrote:I don't see any need to be indignant.
Lol. It was a joke, or rather an attempt at one:
Mkoll wrote:feigned and exaggerated indignation
Remind me not to try that brand of humor again. :lol:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

Mkoll wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:I don't see any need to be indignant.
Lol. It was a joke, or rather an attempt at one:
Mkoll wrote:feigned and exaggerated indignation
Remind me not to try that brand of humor again. :lol:
Certainly it was a joke, but seriously read the first 20 pages, if you have not already.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll »

tiltbillings wrote:Certainly it was a joke, but seriously read the first 20 pages, if you have not already.
I just now skimmed the first 20 and I've seen enough.

I'll refrain from commenting.

:sage:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

Mkoll wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Certainly it was a joke, but seriously read the first 20 pages, if you have not already.
I just now skimmed the first 20 and I've seen enough.

I'll refrain from commenting.

:sage:
But you should comment.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
daverupa
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by daverupa »

I thought page 26 was useful.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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