Buddha and the Upanishads

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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Ceisiwr
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Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by Ceisiwr »

Which Upanishads were around at the same time as the Buddha?

Which ones would he have been aware off?


Wasnt sure where to post this so apologies if this is the wrong section
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Babadhari
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by Babadhari »

:popcorn:
this should get interesting
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by Ceisiwr »

kitztack wrote::popcorn:
this should get interesting

lol hopefully

I cant seem to find a concrete answer about which ones, if any, were around when Buddha was alive

We know that the materialist Carvakas were around, as well as the deterministic Ajivakas, the austere jains, and the superstition of the vedic religion, probably a form of samkhaya (pre-theistic/deist/pantheist etc) as well as many other schools of thought

But were the Upanishads, and so a section of Hinduism as we know it?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
daverupa
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by daverupa »

wiki wrote:Scholars disagree about the exact dates of the composition of the Upanishads. Different researchers have provided different dates for the Vedic and Upanashic eras. Some authors believe the oldest of these, the Brihadaranyaka, Jaiminiya Upanisadbrahmana and the Chandogya Upanishads, were composed during the pre-Buddhist era of India, while the Taittiriya, Aitareya and Kausitaki, which show Buddhist influence, must have been composed after the 5th century BCE. The remainder of the mukhya Upanishads are dated to the last few centuries BCE.
On a related note, I think the Bhagavad Gita and the Dhammapada are contemporaneous with each other.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by Ceisiwr »

daverupa wrote:
wiki wrote:Scholars disagree about the exact dates of the composition of the Upanishads. Different researchers have provided different dates for the Vedic and Upanashic eras. Some authors believe the oldest of these, the Brihadaranyaka, Jaiminiya Upanisadbrahmana and the Chandogya Upanishads, were composed during the pre-Buddhist era of India, while the Taittiriya, Aitareya and Kausitaki, which show Buddhist influence, must have been composed after the 5th century BCE. The remainder of the mukhya Upanishads are dated to the last few centuries BCE.
On a related note, I think the Bhagavad Gita and the Dhammapada are contemporaneous with each other.

Do you have a link for that quote? :)
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
daverupa
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by daverupa »

Yes indeed, click the blue 'wiki' word in the quote. Ultimately, it looks like it terminates with the following reference:

King, Richard; Ācārya, Gauḍapāda (1995), Early Advaita Vedānta and Buddhism: the Mahāyāna context of the Gauḍapādīya-kārikā, SUNY Press, ISBN 978-0-7914-2513-8

I think Gombrich discussed this in similar terms in How Buddhism Began, somewhere, but maybe he used the same source...

There may be more detail, and more references, at this wiki link.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Mkoll
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by Mkoll »

clw_uk wrote:Which ones would he have been aware off?
I don't think we'll be able to definitively answer this question based upon the available evidence.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by tiltbillings »

Mkoll wrote:
clw_uk wrote:Which ones would he have been aware off?
I don't think we'll be able to definitively answer this question based upon the available evidence.
Given that the Buddha very obviously caricatured the creation myth in the Brihadaranyaka that is a safe bet.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Jetavan
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by Jetavan »

tiltbillings wrote:Given that the Buddha very obviously caricatured the creation myth in the Brihadaranyaka....
Could you give a source for this statement?
daverupa
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Post by daverupa »

Jetavan wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Given that the Buddha very obviously caricatured the creation myth in the Brihadaranyaka....
Could you give a source for this statement?
You can have a look at this Gombrich paper, starting on page 13.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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