Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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no mike
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by no mike »

Thank you, everyone, for the great responses :heart:

According to the teachings, are all, and all-of, beings annata? What of the "purified beings," or that which is purified "of" beings?

Is the liberated, purified being, actually incarcerated in this lifetime, subject to fall apart and dissolve with the break-up of the aggregates? That is, Is the "purified being" ephemeral and illusionary, or does it have qualities separate from annata?

If, by chance, a being were to land upon the other shore in this very lifetime, would the purified being, or all parts of, dissolve with body and aggregates, turning into beach, like dried or decomposing starfish, driftwood, or crushed shells? Or would there be shells on the beach, like those from a hatched egg, with tracks in the sand leading to a possible array of new directions?

-or- Is this a waste of attention to contemplate, perhaps unanswered directly in the Dhamma, since worldly impure beings are not of the developed mind and viewing abilities to conceptualize that which is beyond?

-or- Would my attention be more suited off this topic, since my focus should be on the path at hand, namely, the one which leads to the ending of suffering, by contemplating and dwelling ardent, clearly comprehending, and mindful, of what is happening moment to moment, regardless of abstract models and likely unresolvable (if not delusion-riddled) concepts of future states or planes of existence?

Understand, this Satipatthana is working to help alleviate suffering, it is working for me as I practice and watch as things unfold, even with humbled and imperfect beginnings. But if there is a pure, true mind or heart, already within us, either as a seed, or as unfined material mixed with coarse material, then it is very much a part of the here and now, and understanding comprehensible qualities of it's capacity, potential, reach, and longevity, seem relevant.

:heart: :heart: :heart:
Babadhari
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by Babadhari »

no mike wrote:

-or- Would my attention be more suited off this topic, since my focus should be on the path at hand, namely, the one which leads to the ending of suffering, by contemplating and dwelling ardent, clearly comprehending, and mindful, of what is happening moment to moment, regardless of abstract models and likely unresolvable (if not delusion-riddled) concepts of future states or planes of existence?



:heart: :heart: :heart:
:buddha1:
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
chownah
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by chownah »

Some things are relevant......more things seem relevant......even more things are thought to be relevant.....
chownah
suttametta
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by suttametta »

yeah no mike, buddha taught some stuff is beyond comprehension, like existence and non-existence, the origin of the universe, etc., so he advised to leave these aside, bc they are beside the point of dharma practice which is to get happy, worse yet, these ideas lead to a ton of sufferings.
culaavuso
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by culaavuso »

no mike wrote: Is the liberated, purified being, actually incarcerated in this lifetime, subject to fall apart and dissolve with the break-up of the aggregates? That is, Is the "purified being" ephemeral and illusionary, or does it have qualities separate from annata?
It could be useful to read SN 44.2
SN 44.2: Anuradha Sutta wrote: "And so, Anuradha — when you can't pin down the Tathagata as a truth or reality even in the present life — is it proper for you to declare, 'Friends, the Tathagata — the supreme man, the superlative man, attainer of the superlative attainment — being described, is described otherwise than with these four positions: The Tathagata exists after death, does not exist after death, both does & does not exist after death, neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"No, lord."

"Very good, Anuradha. Very good. Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress."
SarathW
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by SarathW »

Last edited by SarathW on Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by SarathW »

no mike wrote: Still, leaves me wondering about this developing or uncovering mind, underneath this collection of impermanent worldly human stuff we tend to hold onto and call our personality or our "selves." There is a navigator at the helm. If enough skills are developed at navigation and boating skills, such as chart-reading, weather knowledge, tying knots, repairing sails, and seeing and understanding the stars, recognizing the nature of the sea for what it truly is with all it's waves and currents and depths and dangers, then this navigator can go from boat to boat, or remain on one for seven years, seven months, or seven days, and make it to the other shore. Surely, there would be a Pali term for this navigator, this helmsman, this rower of the boat?
Hi no mike
Skills, knowledge, memory etc are Rupa phenomena’s.
So you have the wrong view in relation to Rupa thinking that it is I, me and myself.
Consider organ transplant and genetic modifications.
:shrug:

Please read Page 356 of the attached.

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Is no-I just a model for correct view?

Post by SarathW »

If you understand cessation of attainment this will further clarifies for you.

So consciousness disappears. When consciousness
disappears, there are no mental factors and there are no
material properties caused by mind. That is what is called the
attainment of cessation. When one is in the attainment of
cessation, one is devoid of all mental activities. At that
moment the meditator has no Citta, no Cetasikas and no Rūpa
born of Citta. A person in Nirodha-samāpatti is like a statue.
The difference between a statue and him is that he is still
living, although he stops breathing, although he has no mental
activities, but his body is still living; his body still has
Jīvitindriya and there is also heat in the body.

Page 83.

http://buddhispano.net/sites/default/fi ... ies-II.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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