Metta or Abhayagiri monastery?

[appicchato]

...we cannot escape from searching for pleasure...

Not everyone would agree with this...

[BlackBird]

...we cannot escape from searching for pleasure...

Not everyone would agree with this...

Quite, indeed isn't the whole mode of the path to escape from searching for pleasure

[Boris]

...we cannot escape from searching for pleasure...

Not everyone would agree with this...

Quite, indeed isn't the whole mode of the path to escape from searching for pleasure

The problem is that even when specific searching for pleasure connected with selfhood is removed, teleology still remains:

You say that, as far as you see it, the arahat's experience functions automatically. By this I presume that you mean it functions without any self or agent or master to direct it. But I do not say otherwise. All that I would add is that this automatically functioning experience has a complex teleological structure.

The puthujjana's experience, however, is still more complex, since there is also avijjā, and there is thus appropriation as well as teleology. But this, too, functions automatically, without any self or agent to direct it. On account of the appropriation, however, it appears to be directed by a self, agent, or master. Avijjā functions automatically, but conceals this fact from itself. Avijjā is an automatically functioning blindness to its automatic functioning. Removal of the blindness removes the appropriation but not the teleology.

http://nanavira.org/index.php/letters/p ... nuary-1962

Arahat will stili avoid contact with fire and fools. Why is like that? Because contact with these things is painful

Then we may say that paranibbana is total escape from searching for pleasure. Here is possible to argue that it is not quite like this, it is rather final success in our eternal search for pleasure. But on the first place, every intelligent man should recognized from context what was said, that it was said as description of puthujjana state and his relation to Dhamma.

...we cannot escape from searching for pleasure...

Not everyone would agree with this...

You are right. Even less people would agree that existence and suffering are synonyms. There are so many levels of delusions.

What makes a person with a "good background" behave so savagely and without remorse while another gives his own life to rescue complete strangers? What creates a hero, a heel, a criminal, a contributor? What determines the difference in human actions? Throughout my life, I have passionately sought the answer to these questions. One thing is clear to me: human beings are not random creatures; everything we do, we do for a reason. We may not be aware of the reason consciously, but there is undoubtedly a single driving force behind all human behavior. This force impacts every facet of our lives, from our relationships and finances to our bodies and brains. What is this force that is controlling you even now and will continue to do so for the rest of your life? PAIN and PLEASURE! Everything you and I do, we do either out of our need to avoid pain or our desire to gain pleasure.

So often I hear people talk about changes they want to make in their lives. But they can't get themselves to follow through. They feel frustrated, overwhelmed, even angry with themselves because they know they need to take action, but they can't get themselves to do it. There is one elementary reason: they keep trying to change their behavior, which is the effect, instead of dealing with the cause behind it.

Understanding and utilizing the forces of pain and pleasure will allow you once and for all to create the lasting changes and improvements you desire for yourself and those you care about. Failure to understand this force dooms you to a future of living in reaction, like an animal or a machine. Perhaps this sounds like a complete oversimplification, but think about it. Why don't you do some of the things you know you should do?

Anthony Robbins, Aweken the Giant Within

While in the present some psychologists argue against that principle, its rather comes from missunderstanding. That principle is in fact quite complicated, and for example you may chose painful old state over possible new pleasent, but it will be because you are familiar with it and pleasure of safety is stronger then fear of the unknown.

[Boris]

Thanks for the sutta, the advice, and the quotes. The quotes remind me of Sumedho's words in "The Buddha Comes to Sussex", something along the lines of "All paths lead to the same place, but they use different words".

I understand you idea, but stated in this way is evidently not true. There are so many paths and they lead to so many places, some of these places are quite unpleasent. You cannot put on the same level openly immoral Jewish Talmud and Jesus Teaching, not to mention Dhamma. There is only one place worth to go and only one path is leading there that is Eightfold Noble Path which starts from right view - knowlegde of anatta.

So your idea should be formulated more or less in such words: All paths supported by right view lead to the same place.

[EmptyCittas1by1]

[EmptyCittas1by1]

I think we got side-tracked by the discussion on arrogance...

If what you want to say has nothing to do with Metta or Abhayagiri, please don't post. Let the thread die if it needs to. Maybe we can contemplate impermanence

[Boris]

Sorry