What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
I think some people obsess about not-self stuff. It's also easy to get into some stupid ideas if you take the not-self too far. Follow the Buddha's teaching and I think the attachment to self will gradually fade away in a naturally and healthy way.
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
Anatta is often presented in the suttas as following impermanence and suffering.
It seems "one must have" wisdom of impermanence before "one can have" wisdom of non-self.
-MN 147"Rāhula, what do you think? Is the eye permanent or impermanent?"—"Impermanent, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?"—"Suffering, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?"—"No, venerable sir."
"Rāhula, what do you think? Are forms … Is eye-consciousness … [279] … Is eye-contact … Is anything comprised within the feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness that arise with eye-contact as condition permanent or impermanent?"—"Impermanent, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent suffering or happiness?"—"Suffering, venerable sir."—"Is what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?"—"No, venerable sir."
It seems "one must have" wisdom of impermanence before "one can have" wisdom of non-self.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
Hi,what is your experience of LIBERATION UNLEASHED?
-
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:30 pm
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
LU is dogmatic in imposing their concept. I pointed out to the owner That this can only lead to conscious awareness but it doesnt cause the subconscious mind to release the attachment to self. Every arising thought has a cause, but the primary condition is grasping of self. So thoughts still arise but the conscious mind merely says that is not from me. The underlying grasping is stil there.
Mind leads the brain, but brain takes time to change the neural network. This is why sotapanna takes few years to realize, not an instaneous change.
She starts to get egoic when I try to point her out on this. The anger and egoic statement reflect the fact that she hasnt lost her attachment to self. It is only a first step but hardly any where close to enlightenment. She still has thoughts, so the self is still there as a condition in the mind.
Mind leads the brain, but brain takes time to change the neural network. This is why sotapanna takes few years to realize, not an instaneous change.
She starts to get egoic when I try to point her out on this. The anger and egoic statement reflect the fact that she hasnt lost her attachment to self. It is only a first step but hardly any where close to enlightenment. She still has thoughts, so the self is still there as a condition in the mind.
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
No.Do you think the level of "no-self" or "not-self" realization is same as or similar to that of a sotapanna?
There is a Sutta which clearly demonstrate that understanding first three fetters (even ten fetters) is not enough.
Understanding dependent origination and follow the Noble Eightfold Path is the way to enlightenment.
This is a very old thread but has raised an important question.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
Not according to the Pali Canon. Can you post a sutta on witch you base this view upon ?This is why sotapanna takes few years to realize, not an instaneous change.
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
The quote you bring talks about sotapana but you seem to be talking about enlightenment....so it seems that you are saying no to a strawman.SarathW wrote:No.Do you think the level of "no-self" or "not-self" realization is same as or similar to that of a sotapanna?
There is a Sutta which clearly demonstrate that understanding first three fetters (even ten fetters) is not enough.
Understanding dependent origination and follow the Noble Eightfold Path is the way to enlightenment.
This is a very old thread but has raised an important question.
chownah
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
The way I understand Sotapanna also an enlightened being.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
The way I understand it arahants are enlighened.....sotapanna are still on the path.SarathW wrote:The way I understand Sotapanna also an enlightened being.
chownah
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
Its a version of Vedanta:SamKR wrote:Hello everyone,
As a Buddhist, or even if you are not a Buddhist, what do you think of http://www.liberationunleashed.com?
They're saying everyone is the same self.their website wrote:Do you exist?
It is a strange question and it’s not something we normally ask. But what if the answer is no, there is no ‘you’. There is no separate self in the way it’s thought to exist. Would you have courage and curiosity to find out for yourself?
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
They're saying everyone is the same self. Which really seems to me to be all you can do as far as denying a self, i.e. either deny corporate self or deny individual self. You can try to deny both, but its pure nonsense. If there is no self at all in the whole universe then nothing would happen due to there being no actor. To deny individual self is AUTOMATICALLY to be teaching corporate self, and vice versa. Literal no self is not a real option. Its either corporate self or individual. And you see that here. A whole organization whose only doctrine is "no self" but they have to add the word 'separate' and say "no separate self" because no self ALWAYS devolves into corporate self at some point.
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
Hi David
If there is an unchanging unit of a being or a consciousness (a self) then liberation as per Buddhism is not possible.
If there is an unchanging unit of a being or a consciousness (a self) then liberation as per Buddhism is not possible.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
The way I understand Sotapanna is not fully enlightened (ie. Partly enlightened)chownah wrote:The way I understand it arahants are enlighened.....sotapanna are still on the path.SarathW wrote:The way I understand Sotapanna also an enlightened being.
chownah
The best thing is to read the Sutta which address the matter raised in the OP.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
"Unchanging" is a strawman.SarathW wrote:Hi David
If there is an unchanging unit of a being or a consciousness (a self) then liberation as per Buddhism is not possible.
Re: What do you think of "Liberation Unleashed"
The Buddha denied both views. So according to you, the Buddha was speaking nonsense.davidbrainerd wrote:You can try to deny both, but its pure nonsense.
I swear dude, its like playing wack a mole with you. Out of one thread and into the other with your obsession with self.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope
I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14
Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope
I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14