Monks and shaving

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Still Searching
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Monks and shaving

Post by Still Searching »

This might sound gross but do monks/nuns also shave their underarms, pubic region and legs as well as head and eyebrows? I'm just curious. Would men have to shave their chests too?
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." ~ Siddhārtha, Gautama Buddha
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appicchato
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by appicchato »

Some do, some don't... :popcorn:
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by lyndon taylor »

I wouldn't want to try to find out!!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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mikenz66
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by mikenz66 »

Note that eyebrows is a specifically Thai thing. My understanding is that Thai monks started doing it during one of the many Thai-Burma wars supposedly to stop infiltration by Burmese dressed as monks, but I have no reliable reference.

I believe trimming pubic areas is not allowed by the Patimokkha, but I can't locate where it is mentioned:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... index.html

:anjali:
Mike
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appicchato
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by appicchato »

...Thai monks started doing it during one of the many Thai-Burma wars supposedly to stop infiltration by Burmese dressed as monks...
True that is...although the logic, reasoning, and instigation of such seems to discount the idea that the Burmese would/could take a blade to their own brows...then there's me, an American Caucasian whacking mine every full moon...go figure...
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by dagon »

mikenz66 wrote:
I believe trimming pubic areas is not allowed by the Patimokkha, but I can't locate where it is mentioned:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... index.html

:anjali:
Mike
I would be thinking that even under the 8 precepts such an action would be questionable :shrug:
7. Nacca-gita-vadita-visukkadassana mala-gandha-vilepana-dharana-mandana-vibhusanathana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=8_precepts
daverupa
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by daverupa »

Dressing the chest-hair was a popular beautification back in the day, and I seem to remember Vinaya about how shaving was prescribed down to the collarbone, but naught else. Nothing about eyebrows either, which seems to be a Thai innovation.

One monk I spoke with at Santi Forest Monastery mentioned being with another monk when they fetched up somewhere in Thailand for the rains, and the community there asked them to shave their eyebrows. They said there was no such Vinaya, but ultimately the 'local practices' argument won him over. His companion yet refused.

Interesting mannerisms.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara »

I could possibly see the shaving of pubic hair for health reasons in certain situations (did you know that the lice in head hair is actually a different species then the lice in pubic hair?).. but other then that the only reason to shave would be related to sexual reasons, what other reason would there be?
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by ArkA »

Still Searching wrote:This might sound gross but do monks/nuns also shave their underarms, pubic region and legs as well as head and eyebrows? I'm just curious. Would men have to shave their chests too?
As the Buddha's words are the only authority, I hope that these references will help to answer your questions.

Attached images are from the pages 144, 185, 186, and 187 from the volume 5 of "The Book of the Discipline" by I.B. Horner, which is the English translation of the 4th book (Cūḷavagga Pāḷi) of the Vinaya Piṭaka.
Page 144.
Page 144.
144.jpg (50.67 KiB) Viewed 15640 times
Page 185.
Page 185.
185.jpg (47.12 KiB) Viewed 15640 times
Page 186-187.
Page 186-187.
186-187.jpg (108.86 KiB) Viewed 15640 times
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

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kmath
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by kmath »

They're not supposed to shave their beards? Never knew that... So why do they all shave their beards?
daverupa
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by daverupa »

kmath wrote:They're not supposed to shave their beards? Never knew that... So why do they all shave their beards?
My understanding is that they're not supposed to trim their beards or otherwise make hair art on the face, such as shaping it into various styles. Getting rid of it all with a razor is perfectly fine, though scissors start to cause concern in that they can be used for styling.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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kmath
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by kmath »

daverupa wrote:
kmath wrote:They're not supposed to shave their beards? Never knew that... So why do they all shave their beards?
My understanding is that they're not supposed to trim their beards or otherwise make hair art on the face, such as shaping it into various styles. Getting rid of it all with a razor is perfectly fine, though scissors start to cause concern in that they can be used for styling.
Got it. Thanks!
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by Mkoll »

ArkA,

Are all those quoted passages from the minor rules? That is, those rules that the Buddha said the monks were allowed to change when he passed away?

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
daverupa
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by daverupa »

Mkoll wrote:ArkA,

Are all those quoted passages from the minor rules? That is, those rules that the Buddha said the monks were allowed to change when he passed away?

:anjali:
Those rules can't be delineated, unfortunately, and in any event extant Vinayas contain much more material than was there when the Buddha was saying his final words, so the better approach - in my experience - is to see the purpose of the rule. Here there is a problem with beautification, and this sort of hair care (beard shaping & trimming) is akin to cosmetics and perfumes.

The things to notice, when engaged in these relatively average toiletries, are one's intentions and goals, one's attitudes and expectations about these acts and which results are hoped for.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Mkoll
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Re: Monks and shaving

Post by Mkoll »

daverupa wrote:
Mkoll wrote:ArkA,

Are all those quoted passages from the minor rules? That is, those rules that the Buddha said the monks were allowed to change when he passed away?

:anjali:
Those rules can't be delineated, unfortunately, and in any event extant Vinayas contain much more material than was there when the Buddha was saying his final words, so the better approach - in my experience - is to see the purpose of the rule. Here there is a problem with beautification, and this sort of hair care (beard shaping & trimming) is akin to cosmetics and perfumes.

The things to notice, when engaged in these relatively average toiletries, are one's intentions and goals, one's attitudes and expectations about these acts and which results are hoped for.
Thanks for clearing that up daverupa.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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