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Eradicating sex drive - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Eradicating sex drive

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:59 pm

Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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Dan74
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby Dan74 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:51 am

Sex or no sex, it's about the mind.

We can be intoxicated with sex and build identity around pleasure and sex. Or we can be intoxicated with being unattached to sex and build identity around that. There is no doubt that for many of us, sex is a major driving force, hence it merits more attention.

What is more important, I think, is how do we work with all that? How do we practice, being sexual creatures full of urges and cravings?

Edit: inserted an important comma!
Last edited by Dan74 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
_/|\_

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daverupa
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:55 am

I'm sorry to have provided a simplistic dichotomy, but I mean to emphasize that the pursuit of sensual pleasure is what makes it problematic; whatever romantic/etc. layers one also has in fact contribute to the overall sensual attraction involved in the pursuit of relationship with a significant other.

To be brief, these sorts of things (sensual pursuits generally) serve as an obstruction to meditation. That's the only point I mean to make.

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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby Dan74 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:59 am

_/|\_

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daverupa
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:10 am

"True" testing ground? That's kooky. I don't doubt there are benefits, many benefits - humans, you know, evolved for this to be healthy in myriad ways - but there are better and greater benefits that those benefits get in the way of.

:shrug:

It's a very simple point. I think we're talking past each other.

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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby Dan74 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:17 am

We probably are talking past each other, Dave.

I said wholesome relationships of all kinds [...] provide a true testing ground for all those wonderful qualities we've been cultivating. Brahmaviharas and paramis are not tested as much while on a cushion or in one's comfort zone, as in relating to our environment and fellow beings. This was my simple point. Is that so kooky, really?

As for better and greater benefits that you allude to, yes, I agree it may be the case. The Buddha spoke of the one enamoured with all the fun and drama of the romantic entanglement, a slave to pleasure, blind to the bondage inherent therein and to greater matters. Perhaps one could also speak of one whose heart is cold and insulated by hurts and disappointments, one whose life is insipid and dry, a heart which has never known love and where love for one person cannot blossom into powerful compassion for all beings. There are right things done for wrong reasons, which inevitably yield wrong results. In any case...
Last edited by Dan74 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
_/|\_

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daverupa
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:27 am


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Dan74
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby Dan74 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:33 am

Brahmaviharas, of course! What else could 'all those wonderful qualites we've been practicing' mean?

And of course people are going to be on the defensive - it's what we do (well, some of us, sometimes, at least). :)

There is of course attachment, deep attachment to sensuality which is pervasive and sex is just one aspect of it.
_/|\_

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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby kmath » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:14 am


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Mindstar
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby Mindstar » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:01 am

If you want to stay as a lay disciple in the future there shouldnt be a problem with indulging in romance/sex because you are aiming for low anyway. You might become a stream winner or with strong wisdom faculties a once-returner.
It is however for those of us who want to ordain in the future that we need to aim for the highest.
Beeing inspired by great monks like Maha Mogalana and Anuruddha - Master of the Divine Eye who where practicing very diligently even if it was hard reaped the fruits of their good practice in the end.

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada

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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:02 am


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reflection
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby reflection » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:39 am

Some love their sex drive, others would rather not have it and try to diminish or remove it. Is that hard to understand? Apparently so. Still I wonder why these threads always tend to turn into some discussion about why we should or shouldn't. I mean, if somebody opens a thread about how they'd like to stop eating chocolate and that they'd like to have some support for that, I'm also not jumping into that saying "Listen, I love chocolate, nothing wrong with it if you have the right kind of chocolate" or "sorry, no, you can't stop eating chocolate". In my eyes it's just not very respectful towards the one who wants to stop.

And I know people's attachment to sexuality are strong, so they feel the need to defend them. So it's nothing personal. It just annoys me that on a Buddhist board we just can't seem to have a thread just focused around trying to support one another. I mean, it's one of the only places where some can find some support - if you don't live close to a monastery or so, there is virtually nobody to talk to.

And yes, now I'm adding to the turmoil I know, I'm sorry. :namaste:
Last edited by reflection on Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:10 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby reflection » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:50 am


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manas
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby manas » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:47 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:15 am

I am, above and beyond everything, a pragmatist. I'm a realist. I know myself and my limits.

I recall several years ago when I meditated an hour a day, every day, I became weird and isolated. I had little use for other people, wanted to spend all my time meditating, found it almost impossible to take interest in all those things that interest 'normal' people. My bhikhu at the monastery in Murphreesboro said it was time to take the preliminary trainings to begin the process of ordaining.

I recall puttering around my house thinking about putting all my affairs in order. I began thinking about my son and my brother. Both adults, but neither completely functional in the world. How were they going to get by if I were a penniless monk? Next, from somewhere in the deep recess of my mind rose Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde--Song of the Earth--a thing of terrible beauty, and that almost cinched it. I always loved Mahler. But what really derailed me was this conviction I'd held since early adolescence. That there was someone out there waiting for me, as I had been waiting for them. I had been searching for this person for a long time, and found bits and pieces of her in other women: the laughing eyes here, the passion there, the mischievous humor there, the kind heart in another; someone who shared my love for music and theater in yet another, but never all together in one woman. The Romantic Quest. And I knew somewhere in the world, she was looking for me. I cannot explain the sense of certainty. I could feel her, my companion, making her way toward me. Most people settle for someone they can get along with, and they barely tolerate each other. I wasn't going to do that. I would wait.

That's what settled the matter. Being a monk isn't for everyone. I dialed my meditation back a bit. Twenty minutes a day, three times a week. I rejoined the world. And I and my companion found each other. Sometimes, Samsara is kind.

BB
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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Mindstar
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby Mindstar » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:30 am


Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada

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reflection
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby reflection » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:56 am

Last edited by reflection on Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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reflection
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby reflection » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:02 pm


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Anagarika
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby Anagarika » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:58 pm

Isn't it fundamental to practice that we work to release ourselves from the sense fetters that tie us to samsara? Once released, we develop insight and cultivate this path toward Nibbana. So, the sense fetters, including lust and sexual sensuality, are part and parcel of the activities of the mind that tie us to samsara.

Now, sex with a romantic partner is amazing, right? It's really great stuff. Lab experiments with rats tell us that a starved rat will rather copulate than eat. Some of us here might understand that sensibility. Maybe the rat was a college student. :tongue: Our brains are programmed to copulate, and our brains release magnificent euphoric chemicals in support of the goal of copulation. However, with right mindfulness, we understand the "trick or treat" (10/31 Halloween metaphor, sorry) component to sensuality. It's a treat, but it tricks us into pursuit of more sense pleasures away from the path of purification.

A lot of discussion s can be held about the merits of romance and sexuality, but so long as we are still in the camp of the romantic, we cannot be in the camp of the renunciate or the stream enterer. The camp of the romantic distances us from the Buddha's teaching of the highest goal. Now, the Buddha clearly understood the nature of lay men and lay women, and understood that the lay practitioner could achieve high levels of release. Bu the stumbling block to release may be these attachments to the sense fetters that, while strong, wonderful and compelling, keep us off the fullest path.

So, as Bhikkhu Bodhi commented with respect to a different issue, it all comes down to our own individual predispositions and personalities. A kind and compassionate lay person may in fact be well on the path ahead of the angry, greedy monk. But I think the Buddha had it right that to the extent that we incorporate these renunciate practices into our lives, we better prepare the soil for the cultivation of release. After all, who wants to live like a rat in a cage? http://youtu.be/CN4oo-kn7r8

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daverupa
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:04 pm



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