Do people who get murdered deserve it?

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santa100
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by santa100 »

AN 3.33 ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ) compares one's kamma to seeds that depend on favorable conditions to germinate. So, there's no doubt that if a person is murdered, there must be some underlying negative kamma that had been done in the past. But just like a seed wouldn't be able to bear fruit unless all the necessary conditions like water, sunlight, labor, etc. are present, a negative kamma alone by itself will not make that person die. And because of the interdependence of factors, cultivation of wholesome virtues can prevent or limit the effects of unwholesome kamma just like depriving the seed of the needed water or sunlight..
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tiltbillings
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:AN 3.33 ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ) compares one's kamma to seeds that depend on favorable conditions to germinate. So, there's no doubt that if a person is murdered, there must be some underlying negative kamma that had been done in the past. But just like a seed wouldn't be able to bear fruit unless all the necessary conditions like water, sunlight, labor, etc. are present, a negative kamma alone by itself will not make that person die. And because of the interdependence of factors, cultivation of wholesome virtues can prevent or limit the effects of unwholesome kamma just like depriving the seed of the needed water or sunlight..
So, everything that happens to us is the result of kamma: as you sow, so shall you reap?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
santa100
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by santa100 »

Provided that the water, sunlight, are there...
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robertk
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by robertk »

tiltbillings wrote:So, everything that happens to us is the result of kamma: as you sow, so shall you reap?
there is no self at all . so any "us "is simply a designation to represent selfless elements. and among those elements the jati of vipaka is always primarily conditioned by past kamma. however as santa said there have to be supporting conditions for the kamma to bear fruit.


the other jatis are conditioned by other paccaya.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:Provided that the water, sunlight, are there...
That does not really answer the question. So, you would say yes to: " Do people who get murdered deserve it?" And yes to: everything we experience is the result of kamma?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
santa100
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by santa100 »

No, I don't think "deserve" is the proper word to use since it implies a "self" to the sufferer. As robertk pointed, it's just the elements and processes..
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Mr Man
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by Mr Man »

robertk wrote:why does the idea of randomness appeal to so many people?
I'm not sure if randomness really appeals to people (unless it is made into a theory). In my opinion what people find difficult is a lack of explanation, a not knowing or understanding.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:No, I don't think "deserve" is the proper word to use since it implies a "self" to the sufferer. As robertk pointed, it's just the elements and processes..
You still have not answered the question: Does everything that happens to a person happen as a result of kamma?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
santa100
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by santa100 »

I actually did. Read again..
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tiltbillings
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:I actually did. Read again..
Well, I am rather thick, and would like a simple yes or no.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
santa100
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by santa100 »

Your question lacks information and so can lead to misunderstanding. If you ask: "Does everything that happens to a person happen as a result of kamma ALONE?" then No is the answer. If you ask "Does everything that happens to a person happen as a result of kamma AND the necessary supporting conditions?" then Yes is the answer..
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robertk
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by robertk »

Mr Man wrote:
robertk wrote:why does the idea of randomness appeal to so many people?
I'm not sure if randomness really appeals to people (unless it is made into a theory). In my opinion what people find difficult is a lack of explanation, a not knowing or understanding.
in the link i gave earlier there was a good short article by Nina van gorkom that has clear explanations of this.
When there is some understanding of kamma, vipaka and jatis then it is almost difficult to ever feel depressed by anything untoward that occurs in life, imho.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:If you ask "Does everything that happens to a person happen as a result of kamma AND the necessary supporting conditions?" then Yes is the answer..
And the suttas support this? All happiness and suffering arise from previous kamma? Since there are always other conditions at play, it is kamma that is the deciding factor that someone is happy or suffering? A man must reap according to his deeds?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Do people who get murdered deserve it?

Post by Mr Man »

robertk wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
robertk wrote:why does the idea of randomness appeal to so many people?
I'm not sure if randomness really appeals to people (unless it is made into a theory). In my opinion what people find difficult is a lack of explanation, a not knowing or understanding.
in the link i gave earlier there was a good short article by Nina van gorkom that has clear explanations of this.
When there is some understanding of kamma, vipaka and jatis then it is almost difficult to ever feel depressed by anything untoward that occurs in life, imho.
robertk do you mean the Q&A's
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