Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

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Dr. Dukkha
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Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by Dr. Dukkha »

From what I've read, Buddha said that business in meat is one of the five types of business that we should not engage in. I'm a vegetarian myself and I would like to cook for vegetarians at a restaurant of the like. But in order to graduate from culinary school, I would have to cook meat as well.
Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat? What if I can't find a job at a vegetarian restaurant and have to cook meet for a living? Would being in that business be wrong livelihood?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Dr. Dukkha wrote:Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat?
In the context of Right Livelihood, my understanding is that it's the conversion from animal to meat which is the issue. i.e. killing.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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nibbuti
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by nibbuti »

Dr. Dukkha wrote:Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
Only if you're a bad cook.

:stirthepot:

But in order to graduate from culinary school, I would have to cook meat as well.
Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat? What if I can't find a job at a vegetarian restaurant and have to cook meet for a living?
Obviously, one needs some kind of schooling and a job to get by in this world.

So the principle of least harm would be: to graduate even if you have to cook meat for that, and to look for a vegetarian restaurant, even if you have to work at a non-vegetarian restaurant for the time being.

:yingyang:
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Dhammanando
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by Dhammanando »

Dr. Dukkha wrote:From what I've read, Buddha said that business in meat is one of the five types of business that we should not engage in
The term ‘maṃsavaṇijjā’ means ‘butchery’, but in the traditional sense, not the modern one. Traditionally a butcher’s trade consisted in killing animals and then selling their meat; it is this that is wrong livelihood. Its modern equivalent would be the abattoir business. What we nowadays called a ‘butcher’ is usually just a meat-seller, not an animal-killer. This is not included in wrong livelihood. The same consideration applies to other occupations involved with the subsequent processing of the meat, including your own.
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SarathW
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by SarathW »

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Dr. Dukkha
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by Dr. Dukkha »

Thanks, guys! That helps so much!
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Monkey Mind
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by Monkey Mind »

In culinary school, you might be required to cook live lobster, crab, squid, etc.

Perhaps you can privately request permission to be excused from anything like that.
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chownah
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by chownah »

In Thailand there are Buddhists who eat live crabs from time to time. You eat the very small ones (they are land crabs and live in the rice fields).......they are just bite size......the trick is to hold them the right way so they can't pinch you when you put them into your mouth and then bite them quickly. They're Ok......the shell is soft when they are so small but still sort of gritty.
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dzt
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by dzt »

chownah wrote:In Thailand there are Buddhists who eat live crabs from time to time. You eat the very small ones (they are land crabs and live in the rice fields).......they are just bite size......the trick is to hold them the right way so they can't pinch you when you put them into your mouth and then bite them quickly. They're Ok......the shell is soft when they are so small but still sort of gritty.
chownah
It's not like they're not killing living beings, you know.
justindesilva
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by justindesilva »

Monkey Mind wrote:In culinary school, you might be required to cook live lobster, crab, squid, etc.

Perhaps you can privately request permission to be excused from anything like that.
I clearly remember in a story about cookin meat that Lord budda advised a cook in a royalty to go on with his cooking meat as it is the job. ( I do not remember the context).
ieee23
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by ieee23 »

Dr. Dukkha wrote:From what I've read, Buddha said that business in meat is one of the five types of business that we should not engage in. I'm a vegetarian myself and I would like to cook for vegetarians at a restaurant of the like. But in order to graduate from culinary school, I would have to cook meat as well.
Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat? What if I can't find a job at a vegetarian restaurant and have to cook meet for a living? Would being in that business be wrong livelihood?
I've known a number of vegetarian chefs. In each case there is no way they could survive as professional chefs cooking only vegetarian food. Just not enough jobs. Most of the vegetarian chefs I know found other careers or jobs, and work occasional gigs as vegetarian chefs as side business/hobby.

Good Luck.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19
ieee23
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by ieee23 »

For reference sake:

Vanijja Sutta: Business (Wrong Livelihood)

AN 5.177 PTS: A iii 208


"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five?

1. Business in weapons
2. Business in human beings
3. Business in meat
4. Business in intoxicants
5. Business in poison.[/list]

"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Further to Venerable Dhammānando's comment above, we should look in detail at what the commentary to the Vaṇijja Sutta says:

Sattame vaṇijjā ti vāṇijakammāni. In the seventh (sutta), “Trading,” means the livelihood of trading.
Upāsakenā ti tisaraṇagatena. “By a disciple,” means one gone to the three refuges.
  1. Satthavaṇijjā ti āvudhabhaṇḍaṃ kāretvā tassa vikkayo. “Trading in weapons” means, having made them he sells them.
  2. Sattavaṇijjā ti manussavikkayo. “Trading in living-beings,” means selling human beings.
  3. Maṃsavaṇijjā ti sūkaramigādayo posetvā tesaṃ vikkayo. “Trading in flesh,” means having raised pigs or deer, etc., he sells them.
  4. Majjavaṇijjā ti yaṃkiñci majjaṃ kāretvā tassa vikkayo. “Trading in indoxicants,” means having made whatever kind of intoxicants he sells them.
  5. Visavaṇijjā ti visaṃ kāretvā tassa vikkayo. “Trading in poisons,” means having made poisons he sells them.
Iti sabbampi imaṃ vaṇijjaṃ neva attanā kātuṃ, na pare samādapetvā kāretuṃ vaṭṭati.
Thus, it is not suitable to engage in these trades oneself, nor to instruct another to do them.

Trading in flesh means raising livestock and selling their meat. Whether one kills the animals oneself, or hires another to do it, it is wrong livelihood. I think it reasonable to extend this to purchasing meat from the abattoir or fish from the fish market, and then selling it as one's means of livelihood.

I think it goes too far to include cooking meat in a restaurant where one is employed or serving customers in the delicatessen counter of a supermarket.
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