From what I've read, Buddha said that business in meat is one of the five types of business that we should not engage in. I'm a vegetarian myself and I would like to cook for vegetarians at a restaurant of the like. But in order to graduate from culinary school, I would have to cook meat as well.
Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat? What if I can't find a job at a vegetarian restaurant and have to cook meet for a living? Would being in that business be wrong livelihood?
Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
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Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
"There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting."
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
Greetings,
Metta,
Retro.
In the context of Right Livelihood, my understanding is that it's the conversion from animal to meat which is the issue. i.e. killing.Dr. Dukkha wrote:Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
Only if you're a bad cook.Dr. Dukkha wrote:Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
Obviously, one needs some kind of schooling and a job to get by in this world.But in order to graduate from culinary school, I would have to cook meat as well.
Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat? What if I can't find a job at a vegetarian restaurant and have to cook meet for a living?
So the principle of least harm would be: to graduate even if you have to cook meat for that, and to look for a vegetarian restaurant, even if you have to work at a non-vegetarian restaurant for the time being.
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
The term ‘maṃsavaṇijjā’ means ‘butchery’, but in the traditional sense, not the modern one. Traditionally a butcher’s trade consisted in killing animals and then selling their meat; it is this that is wrong livelihood. Its modern equivalent would be the abattoir business. What we nowadays called a ‘butcher’ is usually just a meat-seller, not an animal-killer. This is not included in wrong livelihood. The same consideration applies to other occupations involved with the subsequent processing of the meat, including your own.Dr. Dukkha wrote:From what I've read, Buddha said that business in meat is one of the five types of business that we should not engage in
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
Thanks, guys! That helps so much!
"There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting."
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
In culinary school, you might be required to cook live lobster, crab, squid, etc.
Perhaps you can privately request permission to be excused from anything like that.
Perhaps you can privately request permission to be excused from anything like that.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
In Thailand there are Buddhists who eat live crabs from time to time. You eat the very small ones (they are land crabs and live in the rice fields).......they are just bite size......the trick is to hold them the right way so they can't pinch you when you put them into your mouth and then bite them quickly. They're Ok......the shell is soft when they are so small but still sort of gritty.
chownah
chownah
Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
It's not like they're not killing living beings, you know.chownah wrote:In Thailand there are Buddhists who eat live crabs from time to time. You eat the very small ones (they are land crabs and live in the rice fields).......they are just bite size......the trick is to hold them the right way so they can't pinch you when you put them into your mouth and then bite them quickly. They're Ok......the shell is soft when they are so small but still sort of gritty.
chownah
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
I clearly remember in a story about cookin meat that Lord budda advised a cook in a royalty to go on with his cooking meat as it is the job. ( I do not remember the context).Monkey Mind wrote:In culinary school, you might be required to cook live lobster, crab, squid, etc.
Perhaps you can privately request permission to be excused from anything like that.
Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
I've known a number of vegetarian chefs. In each case there is no way they could survive as professional chefs cooking only vegetarian food. Just not enough jobs. Most of the vegetarian chefs I know found other careers or jobs, and work occasional gigs as vegetarian chefs as side business/hobby.Dr. Dukkha wrote:From what I've read, Buddha said that business in meat is one of the five types of business that we should not engage in. I'm a vegetarian myself and I would like to cook for vegetarians at a restaurant of the like. But in order to graduate from culinary school, I would have to cook meat as well.
Is this considered wrong livelihood to cook the meat? What if I can't find a job at a vegetarian restaurant and have to cook meet for a living? Would being in that business be wrong livelihood?
Good Luck.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19
Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
For reference sake:
Vanijja Sutta: Business (Wrong Livelihood)
AN 5.177 PTS: A iii 208
"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five?
1. Business in weapons
2. Business in human beings
3. Business in meat
4. Business in intoxicants
5. Business in poison.[/list]
"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19
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Re: Is being a cook wrong livelihood?
Further to Venerable Dhammānando's comment above, we should look in detail at what the commentary to the Vaṇijja Sutta says:
Sattame vaṇijjā ti vāṇijakammāni. In the seventh (sutta), “Trading,” means the livelihood of trading.
Upāsakenā ti tisaraṇagatena. “By a disciple,” means one gone to the three refuges.
Thus, it is not suitable to engage in these trades oneself, nor to instruct another to do them.
Trading in flesh means raising livestock and selling their meat. Whether one kills the animals oneself, or hires another to do it, it is wrong livelihood. I think it reasonable to extend this to purchasing meat from the abattoir or fish from the fish market, and then selling it as one's means of livelihood.
I think it goes too far to include cooking meat in a restaurant where one is employed or serving customers in the delicatessen counter of a supermarket.
Sattame vaṇijjā ti vāṇijakammāni. In the seventh (sutta), “Trading,” means the livelihood of trading.
Upāsakenā ti tisaraṇagatena. “By a disciple,” means one gone to the three refuges.
- Satthavaṇijjā ti āvudhabhaṇḍaṃ kāretvā tassa vikkayo. “Trading in weapons” means, having made them he sells them.
- Sattavaṇijjā ti manussavikkayo. “Trading in living-beings,” means selling human beings.
- Maṃsavaṇijjā ti sūkaramigādayo posetvā tesaṃ vikkayo. “Trading in flesh,” means having raised pigs or deer, etc., he sells them.
- Majjavaṇijjā ti yaṃkiñci majjaṃ kāretvā tassa vikkayo. “Trading in indoxicants,” means having made whatever kind of intoxicants he sells them.
- Visavaṇijjā ti visaṃ kāretvā tassa vikkayo. “Trading in poisons,” means having made poisons he sells them.
Thus, it is not suitable to engage in these trades oneself, nor to instruct another to do them.
Trading in flesh means raising livestock and selling their meat. Whether one kills the animals oneself, or hires another to do it, it is wrong livelihood. I think it reasonable to extend this to purchasing meat from the abattoir or fish from the fish market, and then selling it as one's means of livelihood.
I think it goes too far to include cooking meat in a restaurant where one is employed or serving customers in the delicatessen counter of a supermarket.
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