"Why Meditate" Question

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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PsychedelicSunSet
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"Why Meditate" Question

Post by PsychedelicSunSet »

I've been meditating for about 4 or 5 months, and meditating daily for probably about a month, and a question keeps popping up in my mind. "Why Meditate?" I meditate because of my desire to be happier/a better person. But I think this holds me back, because I want to attain something from my meditation. I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation. This makes the question of why meditate come up in my mind. If fruitful meditation comes from meditating without goals or a wanting of some attainment, where is the drive to meditate? I don't think I've explained this too well, but hopefully you can all fill in the gaps, and show me where my wrong view lies/answer this question.



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retrofuturist
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

The Buddhist path is the Noble Eightfold Path.

If meditation assists in cultivating that path, then that there is the why.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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PsychedelicSunSet
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by PsychedelicSunSet »

Thank you for your reply. Does wanting your meditation to aid in the Eightfold Path not hinder your mediation by way of wanting? Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?



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retrofuturist
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Unsurprisingly, the answer to that question lies within the Noble Eightfold Path itself, specifically the second element - Samma Sankappa (right intention).

Right Resolve - Study Guide
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html

Right Intention - Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.vipassana.com/resources/8fp3.php

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
daverupa
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by daverupa »

I think you've gotten some conflicting advice on meditation floating around, which is causing some dissonance. Instructions come in sets, rather than in piecemeal items, and so the basic structure of meditation and how it integrates with the rest of ones living is an important consideration.

The whole of sila (conduct) involves setting up favorable conditions for this wholesomely-integrated (samma) effort, and the practice of satisampajanna and satipatthana throughout ones day forms a foundation for transitioning from satipatthana to seated anapanasati(-samadhi).

The culmination is fundamentally the suppression of the five hindrances and the fulfillment by development of the seven factors of awakening.

This is for the purpose of nibbana.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
dagon
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by dagon »

"The goal of this meditation is the beautiful silence, stillness and clarity of mind."

http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/i ... ation.html

metta
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by pegembara »

Thank you for your reply. Does wanting your meditation to aid in the Eightfold Path not hinder your mediation by way of wanting? Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?


"'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.'

In other words, the desire to be free leads to freedom from desire.
But regarding lust-

"This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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seeker242
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by seeker242 »

As I see it, meditating with no goal does not mean meditating with no goal. :smile: It simply means that when you actually sit down to meditate, you aren't preoccupied with some other thing besides the meditation or meditation object itself, which takes your attention off of the actual meditation you are doing right now. It does not mean there is no reason to meditate to begin with.

Seems to me that "Don't meditate with a goal" is instruction usually given to people who say things like "I did not have any good meditation today! I was just distracted the whole time and didn't feel what I was expecting to feel! My mind did not become quiet like I was expecting it to become! My thinking did not stop like it was supposed to! What happened?! What did I do wrong! etc, etc." And Of course brooding like that only serves to give you even more distractions. So people say "Don't meditate with a goal" for the purpose of helping people stop the unnecessary and counterproductive brooding over what did or did not happen over that 1/2 hour you were sitting on that cushion this morning. It's not talking about the "big picture" reasons to meditate, which of course is to gain insight leading to enlightenment and end suffering, etc.

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santa100
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by santa100 »

PsychedelicSunSet wrote: Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?
The brahmin Unnabha had a similar question which was addressed by Ven. Ananda here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by Spiny Norman »

PsychedelicSunSet wrote: I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation.
I think that's a common misconception, and it can lead to a vagueness and lack of direction in one's practice.

As others have suggested it's important to understand the purpose of meditation in a Buddhist context.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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IanAnd
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by IanAnd »

PsychedelicSunSet wrote:I've been meditating for about 4 or 5 months, and meditating daily for probably about a month, and a question keeps popping up in my mind. "Why Meditate?" I meditate because of my desire to be happier/a better person. But I think this holds me back, because I want to attain something from my meditation. I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation. This makes the question of why meditate come up in my mind. If fruitful meditation comes from meditating without goals or a wanting of some attainment, where is the drive to meditate?
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cooran
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by cooran »

Ian,

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by tiltbillings »

cooran wrote:Ian,

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,
Chris
That is, of course, not a direct quote from a sutta.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
daverupa
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by daverupa »

cooran wrote:Ian,

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,
Chris
No such, I think; we can take it in the spirit of Mahayana Sutras, maybe.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
powerofconstancy
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Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Post by powerofconstancy »

seeker242 wrote: [meditating with no goal] simply means that when you actually sit down to meditate, you aren't preoccupied with some other thing besides the meditation or meditation object itself, which takes your attention off of the actual meditation you are doing right now.
This is really the essence of it. Meditation might make you happier, but at least initially, it more likely will show you the obstacles that are preventing your happiness, and give you the freedom to change those. If we sit and want X, Y or Z to happen and it doesn't, we get easily frustrated and lose sight of what we're actually trying to do--that is; develop a deeper understanding of the three characteristics.

I've found it really helpful to stop thinking about goals and start thinking in terms of 'direction,' keeping in sight the end of the road, but focusing more on the steps I need to take right now.

Trust that your meditation practice is doing what it should, don't get frustrated if you have weeks or months where you feel crummy (you'd feel crummier if you weren't meditating!) or you can't seem to focus (you'd focus worse if you weren't meditating!). Just keep moving forward, one sit at a time, one breath after the other.
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