chownah wrote: SDC wrote:
chownah wrote:I guess that vinnana usually is translated as consciousness, do you know the Pali word which is translated into cognize?
There are interpretations where vinnana is translated as perception. So you have eye, ear, nose, tongue and body perception which are exclusive to one another and then mano vinnana (which could be rendered as “analytic perception” or just “cognition”) is the uniting of the previous five perceptions, which is the formation of a concept.
I know this differs somewhat from the common translation.
Can you post a bit about this.....I hope it is not too complicated......counting perceptions seems a bit odd to me but nothing ventured nothing gained.
Sorry for the delay. I was traveling this weekend.
It isn’t about counting perceptions, it is the perceptual process. My description was a little vague.
Vinnana represents eye perception, ear perception, nose perception, tongue perception, body perception and mind perception. In most suttas about vinnana you see it broken down this way (using consciousness as the word of course). Now if we are discussing this in the context of PS, for instance, vinnana is representing these six things despite that it is just stating vinnana. So you have seeing, hearing, smelling , tasting and the touching - mutually exclusive sense perceptions. But mano vinnana is the uniting of this data into a more complete idea or object which, as revealed by the rest of the PS, becomes more and more complete and is understood in a very specific way.
This is the most complete lecture on this interpretation, vinnana is discussed at around 38min, but I would strongly suggest listening to the entire talk:
Ven Punnaji (Paticca Samuppada)-http://www.buddhadhammasangha.com/hosting/sobhana/online/pu018.wma
Spiny Norman wrote:Isn't mano vinnana mind-consciousness, ie the basic awareness of thoughts and feelings, which are then subject to perception ( sanna )? And I'd have thought that when concepts and analysis begin, then we're into the sankhara ( formations ) aggregate?
I am not familiar with that definition of mano vinnana.
Regarding the questions about sankhara, it is an area where I still have some questions as well. It is addressed in the above talk, but it is still not clear. I have seen it interpreted in so many different ways. In the context of PS, vitakka and vicara are present with sankhara (vaci sankhara? I believe, I do not have my notes with me right now). So I think this is showing where conceptual thinking is in the most subtle aspect of the experience. Once again, it is still unclear to me.
Through many of samsara’s births I hasten seeking, finding not the builder of this house - pain is birth again, again. O builder of this house you’re seen, you shall not build a house again, all your beams have given away, rafters of the ridge decayed, mind to the unconditioned gone, exhaustion of craving has it reached.(Dhp - 153, 154)