Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

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chownah
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Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby chownah » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:08 pm

MN 43 PTS: M i 292
Mahavedalla Sutta: The Greater Set of Questions-and-Answers

Along with a bunch of other stuff there are two portions of this sutta which, when considered together raise a question.

THE FIRST PORTION IS:

"Discernment & consciousness, friend: Are these qualities conjoined or disjoined? Is it possible, having separated them one from the other, to delineate the difference between them?"

"Discernment & consciousness are conjoined, friend, not disjoined. It's not possible, having separated them one from the other, to delineate the difference between them. For what one discerns, that one cognizes. What one cognizes, that one discerns. Therefore these qualities are conjoined, not disjoined, and it is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference between them."

"Discernment & consciousness, friend: What is the difference between these qualities that are conjoined, not disjoined?"

"Discernment & consciousness, friend: Of these qualities that are conjoined, not disjoined, discernment is to be developed, consciousness is to be fully comprehended."[1]

AND THEN JUST TWO SECTIONS LOWER IT SAYS:

"Feeling, perception, & consciousness, friend: Are these qualities conjoined or disjoined? Is it possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them?"

"Feeling, perception, & consciousness are conjoined, friend, not disjoined. It is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them. For what one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, that one cognizes. Therefore these qualities are conjoined, not disjoined, and it is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them."

------------//--------------//-----------///--------
So, are we to take this to mean that all four (discernment, consciousness, perception, feeling) are conjoined?.....or are we to take this it mean that consciousness arises in two different capacities (at least two, might there be others?). I am leaning toward consciousness having two different capacities with one being associated with intake of sense stimulus from the sense media and the other being associated with proliferative thought processes.

Or maybe there is another option?

chownah

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mikenz66
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Re: Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:09 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby daverupa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:33 am


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lyndon taylor
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Re: Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby lyndon taylor » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:39 am

I think conjoined means linked to, or intertwined with, not equal to, in another discussion people were using a similar scripture to try to claim Samsara=Nibbana, which to me at least seems a bit ridiculous.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Sylvester
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Re: Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby Sylvester » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:56 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:18 am


chownah
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Re: Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby chownah » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:52 am

Sylvester,
I agree, "wrong wisdom" is not "awfully good" but there is a similarity.
chownah

mikenz66,
Looks like BB and I are leaning in the same direction. Thanks for bringing his views.
chownah

Sylvester
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Re: Discernment, consciousness, perception,feeling

Postby Sylvester » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:49 am



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