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SN 1.1 The Flood - Dhamma Wheel

SN 1.1 The Flood

Each week we study and discuss a different sutta or Dhamma text

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mikenz66
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SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:45 am


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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:50 am


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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:41 am


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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:48 am

The previous SN suttas we examined were from the end of the Pali Samyutta Nikaya: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=18609
This is the first Sutta of the SN, but, as Bhikkhu Bodhi notes viewtopic.php?f=25&t=345&p=262447#p88300 the suttas with verses come at the end of the Chinese Agamas.

It is interesting to see the translations and comments from the three excellent translator-interpreters above.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby Samma » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:46 am


Derek
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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby Derek » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:33 am

I love SN 1.1. The metaphor of crossing a stream comes from very early Buddhism, as in chapter 5 of the Sutta Nipata, "Parayanavagga" (chapter on the way to the far shore), or even the very word "sotapanna" (stream enterer).

The denial of opposites ("without pushing forward, without staying in place"), while not making any positive assertion in the middle, is elegant. It reminds me of Bhagavad Gita 2:47, "Don't be attached to action, don't be attached to inaction" (okay, that's a pretty loose translation). It also has something in common with the method of Nagarjuna, or even the sutra of Sengstan: "The great way is not difficult for those for those not attached to preferences."

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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:44 pm

Hi Derek,

Thanks for the post. I agree, this, and a number of other SN verses have a lot in common with the Sutta Nipata. We discussed Chapter 5 of the Snp some time ago, starting here: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5778 and you might find it interesting to read though some of that discussion.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby Derek » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:49 pm

Yeah, Thanissaro Bhikku is quoted on that thread as saying: "A recurrent image in these dialogues is of life as a raging flood." I suspect that this was an early and repeated metaphor of the Buddha's teachings, before they had been systematized into the structured formulae we see in much of the Sutta Pitaka. I've already mentioned that sotāpanna ("stream enterer") draws on this image. It occurs to me that āsava ("flow" or "outflow") might also draw on the imagery of a stream.

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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:52 am

Hi Derek,

Certainly streams and floods do feature in many suttas. However, there seem to be a number of different types of streams:
1. Good streams (in the stream-enterer case): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
2. The stream or current that one goes against (the general flow): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#iti-109
3. Bad (flooded) streams: What we have in this sutta.

:anjali:
Mike

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Sam Vara
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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby Sam Vara » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:45 pm

People might be interested in Ajahn Sucitto's book Parami: ways to cross life's floods



The first chapter is about the idea of ogha or floods as a metaphor for defilements, and is beautifully clear.

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Re: SN 1.1 The Flood

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:26 am

Thanks Sam, that looks like an excellent book.

:anjali:
Mike


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