I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby gandy » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:56 am

so how does buddhism reconcile with this? you know there are bunch of people saying that they were seeing a tunnel of light felt a loving presence, some interpret this as god other's as a state of bardo

nevertheless here are the facts


> a study than only 4% of people having near death experiences

http://link.springer.com/article/10.102 ... 078#page-1


> another study on people who had heart attacks were in death like coma without a working heart and most of them didn't have near death experiences, almost all of them turned to a rationalist-materialist

http://www.pentathon.talktalk.net/lancet.pdf


> there is the option that near death experiences are just hormonally induced accidental lucid dreams

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream
http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html
http://lnco.epfl.ch/files/content/sites ... ez_NC(chap)_leaving%20body%20and%20life%20behind-out%20of%20body%20and%20near%20death%20experience.pdf


> or just rare hallucinations induced by oxygen depravation

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oof-heaven


> and in some case it's just people looking for attention

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/unidentified_journal/article/PII0140-6736(90)92780-L/abstract


> there is an experiment in which scientist induced near death experiences in living people using a magnetic beam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0
gandy
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:51 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby pilgrim » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:04 am

And how does any of this prove there is no rebirth?
Your reasoning is faulty. It is like saying I can prove all the sounds you heard outside your house were made by cats, dogs, birds and farmyard animals, so it proves there are no such things as motorcars.
User avatar
pilgrim
 
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:34 am

Just trolling IMO.
AIM WebsitePāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
 
Posts: 1953
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby purple planet » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:03 am

the logic is dont belive what someone says check it out for yourself - meditate and you might be able to "see" events from past lives - do i belive in afterlife ? not yet i dont have proof but from meditating and reading about buddhism it does seem more possible the more time passes not less possible

its not that one person say "i saw shiny lights" or "i saw my whole life flash before me" that makes buddhists belive in the after life - the after life happens when you die not when you half-die like in this stories

i dont say all those experiences are falls - they might be right - but i believe 95% of buddhists dont take them as proof of anything

i heard the logic of being able to "see" past life events goes like this : when you meditate you are more focused - if you try to remember what you ate for breakfast can you remember it ? what about yesterday ? last week ? - if you mediate a lot you might be able to - then it goes can you remember what you ate 5 years ago ? can you remember big events that happened to you 10 years ago ? and so on until you can remember stuff from past lives

I also heard when you meditate you are sure of "cause and effect" - by experience! not by thinking of it - and you because of this know you cant start out of nowhere and you must have existed before also cause things dont just pop out of nowhere

thats what i heard and know but there are much more and better explanations - also check viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41
Last edited by purple planet on Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
User avatar
purple planet
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am
Location: Israel

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:02 pm

Although I partialy agree with venerable Pesala, I don't think trolls are sufficiently commited to put an entire post full of links, assuming they are valid studies actualy read by the OP.

Well, I didn't even read one of the links. Rebirth is not falsifiable so it isn't the domain of science; it's in the domain of religion.

If you want to find out, get to 4th jhana and try to recollect your previous lives. If you're convinced that there might be something there, do a blind study about it, trying to make people who you met in a previous life remember your previous form.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Virgo » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:03 pm

gandy wrote:so how does buddhism reconcile with this? you know there are bunch of people saying that they were seeing a tunnel of light felt a loving presence, some interpret..


Where is it written that near-death experiences have to be real and experienced for rebirth to be real?

I don't recall hearing or reading that the Buddha spoke or taught about them.

Did the Buddha use near-death experiences as a reason for believing in rebirth? If not, then your question is improperly formulated.

Thanks,

Kevin
Virgo
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:53 pm

gandy wrote:so how does buddhism reconcile with this?


Easy. It is called Near Death Experience for a reason. It really isn't death. It is just Near death. No one completely dies and comes back to the same body. That has never happened; according to Buddhism and science.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7963
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:57 pm

Why are there so many reports of NDEs? I don't know, maybe it's those who want to "prove" their religion with reports of seeing Jesus, Krishna, etc. Or maybe it's for the money. Eben Alexander has made millions selling his book "Proof of Heaven" during a time when his medical practice was not going so well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alex ... #Criticism

In a wide-ranging investigation of Alexander's story and medical background, Esquire magazine reported (August 2013 issue) that prior to the publication of Proof of Heaven, Alexander had been terminated or suspended from multiple hospital positions, and had been the subject of several malpractice lawsuits, including at least two involving the alteration of medical records to cover up a medical error.[6][7] The magazine also found what it claimed were discrepancies with regard to Alexander's version of events in the book. Among the discrepancies, according to an account of the Esquire article in Forbes, was that "Alexander writes that he slipped into the coma as a result of severe bacterial meningitis and had no higher brain activity, while a doctor who cared for him says the coma was medically induced and the patient was conscious, though hallucinating."[6][7][8]
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7963
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:55 pm

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19198
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:24 pm

Why is it that im supposed to care about an afterlife again?
Oh right, righteous retribution and just rewards. A local supermarket hands those out depending on whether you have your frequent shoppers card. I take my business elsewhere.
"Even if you've read the whole Canon and can remember lots of teachings; even if you can explain them in poignant ways, with lots of people to respect you; even if you build a lot of monastery buildings, or can explain inconstancy, stress, and not-self in the most detailed fashion ... The only thing that serves your own true purpose is release from suffering.

"And you'll be able to gain release from suffering only when you know the one mind."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html
User avatar
m0rl0ck
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:51 pm

tiltbillings wrote:http://atheistforums.org/thread-21098.html

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... iew=unread

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum ... #pid386773

Very likely, this is a drive by posting. Gandy will probably not again darken our door.


So gandy is an atheist spreading the Bad News :jumping: man thats hilarious.
Next theyll be going door to door in cheap suits :rofl:
"Even if you've read the whole Canon and can remember lots of teachings; even if you can explain them in poignant ways, with lots of people to respect you; even if you build a lot of monastery buildings, or can explain inconstancy, stress, and not-self in the most detailed fashion ... The only thing that serves your own true purpose is release from suffering.

"And you'll be able to gain release from suffering only when you know the one mind."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html
User avatar
m0rl0ck
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:58 pm

Greetings,

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Just trolling IMO.

Agreed.

And since others have made an effort to respond, Gandy can now make the effort to contact a moderator to explain why this topic ought to be re-opened, but as Tilt suggests... I doubt that effort will be made.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14622
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Return to Open Dhamma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alex123 and 10 guests