Leigh Brasington and retreats

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Heaviside
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Heaviside »

Jhana4 wrote:A friend of mine from my sutta study group has been on a number of jhana retreats in Asia ( some lasting several months ). She knows Lee and invited him to speak to and sit with our group. He is a very talented speaker, very easy to talk to, grounded in science and he has read the entire Pali Canon.

One thing Lee Brasington and my friend emphasized to us about the jhanas is that reaching them requires time. They both mentioned that a week may not be enough depending on the person and that typically jhana retreats/training lasts at months sometimes. They also mentioned that a minimum samatha practice should be at least an hour a day.

Based on having met him that night, I would say that if you can go to his retreat, do it, it will be worth it, but manage your expectations.

HTH
"One thing Lee Brasington and my friend emphasized to us about the jhanas is that reaching them requires time. They both mentioned that a week may not be enough depending on the person and that typically jhana retreats/training lasts at months sometimes. They also mentioned that a minimum samatha practice should be at least an hour a day."

I suppose I am just a suspicious person, but when I see a statement like this it always seems to me like the thirty five pages of fine print on an Apple EULA1--all of which boils down to a legalism that says "your mileage might vary!"

Also, I have been practicing rather religiously fir forty five minutes per day for about two years and have yet to experience a definite jhana. Of course, he did say an hour a day!
Do the best you can with what you have to work with.
Jhana4
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Jhana4 »

Heaviside wrote: I suppose I am just a suspicious person, but when I see a statement like this it always seems to me like the thirty five pages of fine print on an Apple EULA1--all of which boils down to a legalism that says "your mileage might vary!"

Also, I have been practicing rather religiously fir forty five minutes per day for about two years and have yet to experience a definite jhana. Of course, he did say an hour a day!
Brasington and my friends who have trained with him have reached the jhanas. You haven't.

I've known my friends for years through my sutta study class at the vihara. I trust them and what they have to say. I've had Buddhist monks tell me the same things about the amount of home practice time and retreat time necessary to make the jhanas likely to happen.

Good luck.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Heaviside
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Heaviside »

Jhana4,

Thanks for your comment. I bow to your direct experience. My comment was based upon a mistrust of "escape clauses," not of Leigh Brasington himself, whom I find to be both interesting and informative.

As a more general issue, I wonder if anyone has seen this video of Bhante Vimalaramsi's? He presents a very interesting history of the Visuddhimagga, casting into doubt the "authenticity" of one-pointed concentration, nimmitas, and by implication the one-pointed jhanas. Any comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB-nqhNFpVo
Do the best you can with what you have to work with.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by tiltbillings »

Heaviside wrote:Jhana4,

Thanks for your comment. I bow to your direct experience. My comment was based upon a mistrust of "escape clauses," not of Leigh Brasington himself, whom I find to be both interesting and informative.

As a more general issue, I wonder if anyone has seen this video of Bhante Vimalaramsi's? He presents a very interesting history of the Visuddhimagga, casting into doubt the "authenticity" of one-pointed concentration, nimmitas, and by implication the one-pointed jhanas. Any comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB-nqhNFpVo
Vimalaramsi is hardly a reliable source for Theravadin/Buddhist history. See this thread: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 75#p116920

See also: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=9016

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 12#p165199
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Jhana4
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Jhana4 »

Heaviside wrote:Jhana4,

Thanks for your comment. I bow to your direct experience. My comment was based upon a mistrust of "escape clauses," not of Leigh Brasington himself, whom I find to be both interesting and informative.
I see it from another direction as of being an "honest business man" for Brasington, another secular teacher, or a monk to say "before you go to the trouble and expense of coming out there for 1 - 2 weeks, please be aware that it is possible you may not get what you are looking for"
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Heaviside
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Heaviside »

Jhana4,

Yes, that is a much more polite and, on the basis of listening to most of Brasington's talks and reading a bit of his writing, probably more accurate interpretation. But I think you must admit that there are many hucksters and mountebanks out there.

Tiltbillings,

Thanks for posting the link to the Vimalaramsi thread. I'm sorry I missed it. I did a search a few months ago on Vimalaramsi but came up empty handed. I thought his history of Buddaghosa was interesting, but I am hardly qualifed to jusge its accuracy. I do have a more fundamental question, though. Vimalaramsi frequently claims to bypass the "commentaries," preferring to consult the suttas for authentication. But, in the process, he is injecting his own interpretation. And the Tipitika was written down some four or five centuries after the Buddha's death. So what is the "real" authority? I don't think the arguments of Pali scholars help a lot given the provenance of the Tipitika itself.

It seems to me that even the word of the Buddha is not the final touchstone, but how well X works for me. That said, it is interesting to know what has worked for others. And, as I mentioned to Jhana4, claims are one thing and delivery of the goods is quite another.
Do the best you can with what you have to work with.
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mikenz66
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Heaviside,
Heaviside wrote: I do have a more fundamental question, though. Vimalaramsi frequently claims to bypass the "commentaries," preferring to consult the suttas for authentication. But, in the process, he is injecting his own interpretation.
Obviously, as you observe, any conclusions drawn from the suttas, by either the ancient commentators, or modern scholars or teachers will involve some interpretation (and hence some disagreements). I think that Ven Vimalaramsi's interpretations were discussed in some detail in the threads that Tiltbillings linked to.

Since the current thread is about Leigh Brasington's retreats, If you want to discuss Ven Vimalaramsi's interpretations it would be better to do that on one of those threads. Or feel free to start a new thread if you think that none of them are suitable.

:anjali:
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Sylvester »

Heaviside wrote: And the Tipitika was written down some four or five centuries after the Buddha's death. So what is the "real" authority? I don't think the arguments of Pali scholars help a lot given the provenance of the Tipitika itself.
Hi

Re your question on provenance, I can think of 3 fairly reliable dating methods that work with texts rather than manuscripts or inscriptions.

For one, practically all of the sources in the early Buddhist schools regard the 2nd Council as having taken place about either 100 years or 110 years AB. Only the Mahasanghika source does not give the timeframe. On this basis, those suttas and sutras which can find parallels in the Mahasanghika canon can be assured of an early date. Post-schism, the schools were no longer of speaking terms and it's unlikely that the Mahasanghikas kept up with Nikaya and Agama developments. Those shared suttas/sutras can therefore be said to have closed no later than 100 years AB.

Secondly, we can use the dating of the various Abhidharma material as an indication of when the suttas/sutras more or less "closed". There are exceptions to this , of course, but as a general rule of thumb, we can certainly see that the large bulk of the suttas pre-date the Abhidharma. And there are fairly good estimates of the dates of the various Abhidharmas.

Lastly, when you consider how geographically distant schools share so much parallel material, a very reasonable explanation must be that the parallels attest to an early shared heritage before the schools migrated from the common centre. If you link the dispersion to Asoka, then you again have an event that could not have happened more than 230 years AB (depending on which chronology you use).
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cooran
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by cooran »

Hello Heaviside,

This post from a previous thread may be of interest:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... as#p120448

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Jhana4
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Jhana4 »

mikenz66 wrote: Since the current thread is about Leigh Brasington's retreats, If you want to discuss Ven Vimalaramsi's interpretations it would be better to do that on one of those threads. Or feel free to start a new thread if you think that none of them are suitable.
:twothumbsup:
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Jhana4
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Jhana4 »

FWIW, a friend of mine from my vihara, who is friends with Brasington and who has trained with him told me he has submitted a book to Wisdom Publications. It is currently being reviewed for publication.

I know, I know, at this point that is only a little better than a rumor and it could take a while before we actually see the book.

Exciting still .....
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Namkha
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Namkha »

I heartily recommend Leigh Brasington. He is a gifted teacher, very clear and sure. He is also just an extremely decent, kind person. I sat a two week retreat with him and I'm trying to figure out the next time that I will be able to sit with him. I tend to be someone who likes poetry and mystery in my dhamma, and that is not Leigh, but I found something very liberating in his presentation of dharma, concentration and jhana as natural processes. "Do this and that happens." Not mysterious, just how it is. I think he is able to teach to any level of practitioner but I think most of his retreats are limited to practitioners who have sat several week or longer retreats.

Metta,
Namkha
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Namkha
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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Post by Namkha »

Jhana 4, your friend is correct. At the retreat I sat this summer, Leigh mentioned the book several times. It is scheduled to come out at the end of 2014 from Wisdom. Leigh described it as a "Brain Dump" of everything that he knows about the Jhanas. He did caution that in his opinion it is difficult to learn the jhanas from a book but he wanted to get this knowledge out there anyway.
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