Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

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rainclear
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Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by rainclear »

If an arahant's parents were harmed or insulted, would he feel angry?
HumbleThinker
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by HumbleThinker »

Presumably no. He would simply observe something to the tune of "my parents were harmed or insulted," then let that thought pass. He would not let this thought generate anger in him. A nice excerpt I found in an article titled "Nibbana as Living Experience / The Buddha and The Arahant
Two Studies from the Pali Canon" that references a few suttas reads:
Unhealthy negative emotions are always self-oriented and self-centered. The Dhammapada says that the fool laments, "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me," and generates anger.[50] As he is firmly tied to the idea of the self or the ego, and he cannot wean himself away from the experience which inflicted a wound on his ego, he is like a dog tied to a post. This situation is quite in contrast to an experience the Buddha had once.[51] A brahman came and abused him in very harsh language. The Buddha remained silent. When at last the brahman stopped, the Buddha asked: "If you were to visit a friend and you took a gift to him, but the friend declined to accept the gift, what would you do?" The brahman replied that he would take it back. The Buddha said: "You brought me a gift of much abuse, I do not accept; you can take it back." The Buddha also states that even if one is cut into pieces with a double-handled saw, one should train oneself not to generate anger towards the tormentor.[52] Moggallaana was an arahant who was mercilessly beaten by robbers but he was able to maintain his composure without a trace of anger. Such is the freedom one gains from negative emotions on the attainment of Nibbana.
"I know that I know nothing" -Socrates

IOW, take what I say with a grain of salt, for I likely know as little or less than you do.
rainclear
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by rainclear »

So would he take any action or stay out of the way if his parents were abused?
pegembara
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by pegembara »

rainclear wrote:If an arahant's parents were harmed or insulted, would he feel angry?
Anger is something that an arahant would have uprooted but that doesn't mean that he is not capable of taking action. But that action comes from knowing/seeing things as they are untainted with greed, anger and delusion.
Is That So?

The Zen master Hakuin was praised by his neighbors as one living a pure life.

A beautiful Japanese girl whose parents owned a food store lived near him. Suddenly, without any warning, her parents discovered she was with child.

This made her parents very angry. She would not confess who the man was, but after much harassment at last named Hakuin.

In great anger the parents went to the master. "Is that so?" was all he would say.

After the child was born it was brought to Hakuin. By this time he had lost his reputation, which did not trouble him, but he took very good care of the child. He obtained milk from his neighbors and everything else the little one needed.

A year later the girl-mother could stand it no longer. She told her parents the truth - that the real father of the child was a young man who worked in the fishmarket.

The mother and father of the girl at once went to Hakuin to ask his forgiveness, to apologize at length, and to get the child back again.

Hakuin was willing. In yielding the child, all he said was: "Is that so?"
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
SarathW
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by SarathW »

Arahant will extend Brahama Viharas (Metta etc) towards his friend as well as the enemy.
If he is in the middle of a conflict he will seek for a solution which benefit all.
:group:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
fabianfred
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by fabianfred »

This hypothetical situation often comes up in buddhist forums.... you refrain from killing...but what if your parents or family are threatened?
You would try to reason with the attacker... but to physically attack him would be wrong...you would be no better than he..
Karma will take its course...all inherit their own karma.
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mirco
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by mirco »

fabianfred wrote:This hypothetical situation often comes up in buddhist forums.... you refrain from killing...but what if your parents or family are threatened? You would try to reason with the attacker... but to physically attack him would be wrong... you would be no better than he..
Karma will take its course... all inherit their own karma.
Yeah, makes absolutely no sense arguing about it.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by Ceisiwr »

I would say there would be compassion for the parents and those who are insulting them, but not anger
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
HumbleThinker
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by HumbleThinker »

rainclear wrote:So would he take any action or stay out of the way if his parents were abused?
No he would act, but that action, as others have stated, will not be out of anger. An arahant has no need for emotions to be the impetus for his actions, but acts out of the four divine abodes:

Love or Loving-kindness (metta)
Compassion (karuna)
Sympathetic Joy (mudita)
Equanimity (upekkha)

For example there are instances in the suttas of individuals with high attainment acting to prevent another from committing an unskillful act. I can't find the specific story, but I remember reading about a Buddhist of high attainment that utilized supernatural powers he had to hide himself from would be murderers to prevent them from gaining bad karma from killing him. If I remember correctly, though, he ultimately failed after two or three successes because he still had bad karma that had to be worked out.
"I know that I know nothing" -Socrates

IOW, take what I say with a grain of salt, for I likely know as little or less than you do.
dhammapal
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by dhammapal »

I think it depends on your definition of anger. Unlike on Buddha statues I think the Buddha would have had a range of facial expressions, expressing disgust at worthless monks but not to the extent of wanting to cause them long-term suffering.
the Buddha wrote:In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.
From: Abhaya Sutta translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
Great topic!

With metta / dhammapal.
pegembara
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by pegembara »

I doubt the Buddha has disgust as an emotional state. That is not in keeping with seeing things as they are.

"unendearing & disagreeable to others"
is not the same as pleasant and unpleasant vedana.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
hermitwin
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by hermitwin »

non-self. anatta.
an arahant has freed herself from the illusion
of self.
if there is no-self, how can you get angry
about your parents getting insulted???
SarathW
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by SarathW »

Hi Hermit
You are talking about indifference callousness. Your understanding is incorrect.
Please do bit more reading. :reading:
I used to think like you when I was new to this subject of Anatta.

Arahant’s exercise wisdom not callousness!
Metta
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by SarathW »

hermitwin wrote:non-self. anatta.
an arahant has freed herself from the illusion
of self.
if there is no-self, how can you get angry
about your parents getting insulted???
Hi Hermit
I did to do some research on the OP and your answer.
What I found was your answer is partially correct irrespective of my previous reply.
What I learn from this experience is that I should not be too dogmatic about the Dhamma.
It is not easy to answer the OP with few lines. Best thing is to read the following article.
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/4sublime_states.pdf


Page 23 support your answer:
The second insight on which equanimity should be
based is the Buddha’s teaching of no-self (anattā).
This doctrine shows that in the ultimate sense deeds are not
performed by any self, nor do their results affect any self.
Further, it shows that if there is no self, we cannot speak of
“my own”. It is the delusion of a self that creates suffering
and hinders or disturbs equanimity. If this or that quality
of ours is blamed, one thinks: “I am blamed” and equanimity
is shaken. If this or that work does not succeed, one
thinks: “My work has failed and equanimity is shaken. If
wealth or loved ones are lost, one thinks: “What is mine
has gone” and equanimity is shaken.


My answer is support in page 25:
Compassion guards equanimity from falling into a
cold indifference, and keeps it from indolent or selfish isolation
:group:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Dhammanando
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Re: Does an arahant not feel angry at all?

Post by Dhammanando »

Though a little dated in some regards, The Psychology of Nirvana by the psychologist and Pali scholar Rune Johansson remains probably the best Sutta-based study on the personality of an arahant — both what it feels like to be one and how such a person will appear to others.

http://watflorida.org/pages/Library.html
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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