Science and Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Tom
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Science and Buddhism

Post by Tom »

From a DhammaVinaya point of view, should we trust scientific "laws" to maintain consistency? I'm thinking about becoming a scientist because I've recognized how many technologies developed from science, however I don't necessarily trust that science presents absolute certainties to the world, so I don't know whether or not it would be safe to play with this uncertainty.
Jhana4
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Jhana4 »

ccharles wrote:I don't necessarily trust that science presents absolute certainties to the world,
That is exactly why I value science. Scientific will consensus will change when new information is discovered. With religion, the Earth stays flat and at the center of the universe until the rest of the world moves on shames/forces the priests to update their views.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Science cannot solve the problem of human suffering. It might be able to find some DNA fault that might have been responsible for the deformity suffered by the Elephant Man, but it cannot answer the question, why was John Merrick born with that faulty gene?

What matters for us is to find out what causes us to suffer here and now. Without the Buddha's supernormal powers we cannot know what past kamma lead to the present result. Even if the Buddha or one like him could tell us, we would still not be free from suffering the results of kamma that we do inherit.

So, what should we do? Study science to solve scientific and technological problems. Study the Buddha's teaching to solve the human problem of suffering.
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Jhana4
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Jhana4 »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Science cannot solve the problem of human suffering.
Plenty of suffering in the world, even in Buddhist countries, after 2500 years of Buddhism. When Buddhism works, it works for individuals and after many years of applied effort from that individual. Since science studies underlying mechanisms, including the biological ones, science has the potential to learn things that could shorten the amount of time it takes individuals to get those results.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
HumbleThinker
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by HumbleThinker »

ccharles wrote:From a DhammaVinaya point of view, should we trust scientific "laws" to maintain consistency? I'm thinking about becoming a scientist because I've recognized how many technologies developed from science, however I don't necessarily trust that science presents absolute certainties to the world, so I don't know whether or not it would be safe to play with this uncertainty.
From any Buddhist POV that I know of, the "laws" of the universe are dependent on a universe existing and therefore offer no certainties. This is true even from a secular scientific POV, as science does not deal in proof but in the preponderance of evidence, or what is most likely correct based on or most supported by the evidence. And scientific laws are just descriptive models of phenomenon that are consistently accurate only within the (for lack of a better term) perspective they are intended. For example, Newtons laws are extremely accurate on the macroscopic level, but become less accurate the smaller and smaller you go, most notably at the quantum level.
"I know that I know nothing" -Socrates

IOW, take what I say with a grain of salt, for I likely know as little or less than you do.
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Kusala
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Kusala »

ccharles wrote:From a DhammaVinaya point of view, should we trust scientific "laws" to maintain consistency? I'm thinking about becoming a scientist because I've recognized how many technologies developed from science, however I don't necessarily trust that science presents absolute certainties to the world, so I don't know whether or not it would be safe to play with this uncertainty.
To paraphrase Ajahn Brahm, science is the pursuit of truth in the outside world and Buddhism is the pursuit of truth in the inner world. I think, in certain cases, both disciplines complement one another.
Last edited by Kusala on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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Kusala
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Kusala »

The most beautiful and profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is good as dead. - Albert Einstein
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
Tom
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Tom »

Would working as an engineer or computer scientist fall under right livelihood?
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pilgrim
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by pilgrim »

Tom wrote:Would working as an engineer or computer scientist fall under right livelihood?
Its not the career but what you do in your career. Engineers and computer scientists were probably involved in designing the latest medical equipment as well as the latest weapons.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Kim OHara »

pilgrim wrote:
Tom wrote:Would working as an engineer or computer scientist fall under right livelihood?
Its not the career but what you do in your career. Engineers and computer scientists were probably involved in designing the latest medical equipment as well as the latest weapons.
True, but I had to smile at that pairing of jobs: years ago I had a good friend, a physicist, who worked at the (Defence Dept, Aust) Weapons Research Establishment and gave it up to go into medical physics, working at a hospital.

:coffee:
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mahat
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by mahat »

Without science, especially computer science, I would never have figured out that Buddha's 4 Noble Truths is a beautiful algorithm involving recursion! :jawdrop:
I was so excited when I figured it out! :woohoo:

Science really has helped me appreciate Buddha's spiritual genius -- that he was above and beyond any founder of any other tradition, either philosophical or religious.
SarathW
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by SarathW »

I agree with you Mahat, I learned most about Buddhism through internet.
Anyone who says science is not important is see only the one side of the Buddha’s teaching.
We can’t burn the raft before we cross the river!
:reading:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DNS
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by DNS »

Tom wrote:Would working as an engineer or computer scientist fall under right livelihood?
Sure, why not? As long as you're not making WMD or something like that, it should be very wholesome work / career.
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Mkoll
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by Mkoll »

Tom wrote:From a DhammaVinaya point of view, should we trust scientific "laws" to maintain consistency? I'm thinking about becoming a scientist because I've recognized how many technologies developed from science, however I don't necessarily trust that science presents absolute certainties to the world, so I don't know whether or not it would be safe to play with this uncertainty.
Science never presents absolute certainties to people. The definition of science is: the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. There is no mention of certainties. In fact, science is quite the opposite: it is perpetually uncertain! This article, Common misconceptions about science I: “Scientific proof", makes this clear.

As an aside...

As disciples of the Buddha who want to become noble disciples of the Buddha, we take the view that the Buddha is a fully enlightened being who directly realized the most profound truths of existence, the Dhamma, and taught those truths to others so they could see and realize the end of suffering and become members of the noble Sangha. The taking of this view and the living of life in accordance with it is an act of faith of the disciple.

When one becomes a member of the noble Sangha through diligent practice, one becomes "independent of others in the Teacher's Dispensation" and faith becomes immovable. Doubt in the Buddha is destroyed completely and one truly knows for oneself. Of course, self-identity view is also destroyed completely but the limitations of language require the use of names, pronouns, subjects, objects, nouns, and verbs. Contrast this to scientific knowledge which will always remain at a tentative level. This is why comparisons of Buddhism with science must be made with caution and with full awareness of the limitations of such comparisons.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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kmath
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Re: Science and Buddhism

Post by kmath »

“If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.”


― His Holiness Dalai Lama XIV, The Universe in a Single Atom: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality
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