The 8th Precept

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ceisiwr
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The 8th Precept

Post by Ceisiwr »

Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami


I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.
Does this mean sleeping on the floor, or sleeping on a blanket?

What is the defining line between luxury and asceticism?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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lyndon taylor
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Re: The 8th Precept

Post by lyndon taylor »

I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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Ceisiwr
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Re: The 8th Precept

Post by Ceisiwr »

lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ben
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Re: The 8th Precept

Post by Ben »

clw_uk wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?
Hi Craig,

When I am on retreat, I sleep on a thin mattress.
The idea of the precept is that one doesn't indulge in the sensual pleasure of comfortable bed. Sleeping on a thin mattress will certainly ensure that you experience the dukkha of not being in your own comfortable bed, but it is more conducive to minfulness by only sleeping when you need it rather than dozing and potentially cultivating states of sloth and torpor.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Ceisiwr
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Re: The 8th Precept

Post by Ceisiwr »

Ben wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?
Hi Craig,

When I am on retreat, I sleep on a thin mattress.
The idea of the precept is that one doesn't indulge in the sensual pleasure of comfortable bed. Sleeping on a thin mattress will certainly ensure that you experience the dukkha of not being in your own comfortable bed, but it is more conducive to minfulness by only sleeping when you need it rather than dozing and potentially cultivating states of sloth and torpor.
kind regards,

Ben
Thanks Ben :)

I guess what I'm wary of is taking it too far and sleeping in such a way where I dont sleep, which will affect my health and performance in work etc, yet I don't want to sleep on a bed that gives rise to sloth

:juggling:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ben
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Re: The 8th Precept

Post by Ben »

Just take it easy and gradually, Craig.
Perhaps its something you might like to observe on the Uposotha (or on your weekend). Sleeping on a thin mattress Its something that I have found that I have gotten used to.
Since the beginning of the year I've been doing some camping and I reckon I get a better sleep on my thermarest insulated inflatable roll in a tent than I do in my bed at home.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Cittasanto
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Re: The 8th Precept

Post by Cittasanto »

clw_uk wrote:
Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami


I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.
Does this mean sleeping on the floor, or sleeping on a blanket?

What is the defining line between luxury and asceticism?
Q1
The length mentioned in the vinaya equivalent of this rule is only for the legs (I would include any part not the seat or part one lies on such as a bed stead) of the "resting place", not of the mattress, cushion....
the actual length is hard to assess accurately. but I favour Ajahn Thanissaros interpretation which can be found in pācittiyā 87 and discussed in Appendix 2. But I have seen the maximum height given as up to 65cm before.

Q2 (I read the rest of the thread before answering this one)
the motive behind undertaking this precept is to be able to be satisfied with what is at hand, we cannot always have a comfy bed (or any luxury for that matter), or expect it as a given so being able to relinquish luxuries (even if it is by choice or once a week) helps us face hardship more equanimously.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
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pegembara
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Re: The 8th Precept

Post by pegembara »

Ben wrote:Just take it easy and gradually, Craig.
Perhaps its something you might like to observe on the Uposotha (or on your weekend). Sleeping on a thin mattress Its something that I have found that I have gotten used to.
Since the beginning of the year I've been doing some camping and I reckon I get a better sleep on my thermarest insulated inflatable roll in a tent than I do in my bed at home.
kind regards,

Ben
In that the the 8th precept might entail sleeping on "luxurious" beds.
:tongue:
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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