Something Missing

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
lobotrock
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Something Missing

Post by lobotrock »

Hi,

Buddha, seems like, was good. Don't kill, cheat, or steal? Sounds good to me. Use logic and your own reason? Yes, please.

Buddha says to meditate to be within present moment. Present moment is where we already are, can't argue with that. In present moment, we can see more clearly. I agree with all this.

However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
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Ben
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Re: Something Missing

Post by Ben »

Who says suffering is not present when one is sitting in meditation?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Aloka
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Re: Something Missing

Post by Aloka »

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
What we do on the cushion helps us with daily life, it isn't something separate.

When we are not 'sitting' we can recollect the Buddha's teachings and practice mindfulness.
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Dan74
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Re: Something Missing

Post by Dan74 »

lobotrock wrote:Hi,

Buddha, seems like, was good. Don't kill, cheat, or steal? Sounds good to me. Use logic and your own reason? Yes, please.

Buddha says to meditate to be within present moment. Present moment is where we already are, can't argue with that. In present moment, we can see more clearly. I agree with all this.

However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
I think before we can run, we usually learn to walk. Before we can learn to deal skillfully with challenges in the midst of the hurly-burly, it might be a good idea to learn to deal with sitting still on the cushion disturbed by nothing but our mind and body.

This last thing turns out to be the real battleground anyway. But I agree - what takes place in meditation needs to be penetrate every aspect of our lives.
_/|\_
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Something Missing

Post by Crazy cloud »

lobotrock wrote:Hi,


What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
Extrate information out of sensations, and aknowledge, forgive, learn, let go
Then you take a couple of long or short breaths, and contemplate with your eyes open or closed: this to will pass .. (or som other wise thought from your own litlle mental library of "dhammatools")

My way, by the way :)

metta

:console:
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
lobotrock
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Re: Something Missing

Post by lobotrock »

Ben wrote:Who says suffering is not present when one is sitting in meditation?
Mental trauma is horrible, no denying that. Sometimes, we might rather taken physical pain over emotional pain.

But, if brain faces physical, emotional, and logical pain ( being wrong on important issue ) all at once, is cushion practice enough? Or, does time spent on cushion create "happy place" for brain to run to when it faces physical, emotional, and/or logical pain in waking, walking life?
lobotrock
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Re: Something Missing

Post by lobotrock »

Aloka wrote:
What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
What we do on the cushion helps us with daily life, it isn't something separate.

When we are not 'sitting' we can recollect the Buddha's teachings and practice mindfulness.
I think meditation is efficient for inner peace, but I don't know how sitting can lead to wisdom and selflessness..?
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cooran
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Re: Something Missing

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

This might be of interest:

Dukkha (suffering, stress)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... ukkha.html

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
lobotrock
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Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Something Missing

Post by lobotrock »

Dan74 wrote:
lobotrock wrote:Hi,

Buddha, seems like, was good. Don't kill, cheat, or steal? Sounds good to me. Use logic and your own reason? Yes, please.

Buddha says to meditate to be within present moment. Present moment is where we already are, can't argue with that. In present moment, we can see more clearly. I agree with all this.

However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
I think before we can run, we usually learn to walk. Before we can learn to deal skillfully with challenges in the midst of the hurly-burly, it might be a good idea to learn to deal with sitting still on the cushion disturbed by nothing but our mind and body.

This last thing turns out to be the real battleground anyway. But I agree - what takes place in meditation needs to be penetrate every aspect of our lives.
I did not expect this many responses so fast. I hope I am mindful in my replies. I think I have been so far.

Yes, I agree to walk before run. But, is it too much to ask each adult to run on his own? It is not hard.

What I mean, is that sitting on comfy chair will lead to peace, in peaceful mind. But what else? Maybe nothing. Maybe that's all it is. Sitting in comfy chair, clearing mind - anyone can do it. There is no selflessness nor wisdom to be found - just peace, like when you eat a warm meal peace or when you watch a sunrise peace.

*by "mindful" I mean I hope I don't compete "my" idea, and rather remain objective.
Last edited by lobotrock on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
lobotrock
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Re: Something Missing

Post by lobotrock »

Crazy cloud wrote:
lobotrock wrote:Hi,


What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
Extrate information out of sensations, and aknowledge, forgive, learn, let go
Then you take a couple of long or short breaths, and contemplate with your eyes open or closed: this to will pass .. (or som other wise thought from your own litlle mental library of "dhammatools")

My way, by the way :)

metta

:console:
Can brain do all those things in the span of time that pain is being faced? Maybe natural order of things is that it takes much time to do each of those, much longer than a couple of breath.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: Something Missing

Post by Crazy cloud »

lobotrock wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:
lobotrock wrote:Hi,


Can brain do all those things in the span of time that pain is being faced? Maybe natural order of things is that it takes much time to do each of those, much longer than a couple of breath.
I'v trained my mind for the last 8 years, and it works fine. Often it's enough to just think: let go ...

And if that doesnt work fast enough, i take a few more internal steps in my own library, as mentioned.

easy piecy lemon squeesy :)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
mal4mac
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Re: Something Missing

Post by mal4mac »

lobotrock wrote: What I mean, is that sitting on comfy chair will lead to peace, in peaceful mind. But what else? Maybe nothing. Maybe that's all it is. Sitting in comfy chair, clearing mind - anyone can do it.
I can't, at least not consistently. Maybe you're a "natural" and can do it, but can you really speak for everyone? When I sit in a comfy chair, try and clear my mind, my mind doesn't clear! I think of something ... What's for dinner? Should I buy a carbon monoxide detector? How to stop cats pooping in my garden while being kind to them?... and on... and on...

Things go better when I try anapanasati... by focusing on the breath the 'monkey mind' is stilled, somewhat, some peace is attained.
There is no selflessness nor wisdom to be found - just peace, like when you eat a warm meal peace or when you watch a sunrise peace.
When I eat a warm meal I'm often disgruntled with thoughts like... this doesn't taste good, or, "should I buy a carbon monoxide detector? How to stop cats pooping in my garden while being kind to them?... and on... and on..." I wish I was somewhere I could see a beautiful sunrise...

I think you have to very careful to understand what is meant by "wisdom" in the context of Buddhist meditation, from what I've read, it's seeing the suffering, impermanence, and lack of self-being in every experience... then letting these experiences "just be", "letting them go", "accepting them" ... then CO & pooing cats will not irritate you... you will not require a sunrise... any warm meal will do...

It's all very tough though ... pooing cats still bother me, I'm going to get a CO detector today, I'm disgruntled about the overly plain meal I'll be having for lunch, it's cloudy & I have no view...
- Mal
pegembara
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Re: Something Missing

Post by pegembara »

What I mean, is that sitting on comfy chair will lead to peace, in peaceful mind. But what else? Maybe nothing. Maybe that's all it is. Sitting in comfy chair, clearing mind - anyone can do it. There is no selflessness nor wisdom to be found - just peace, like when you eat a warm meal peace or when you watch a sunrise peace.
In fact most people can't do it - they have what is known as the monkey mind.

Question is can the peace be maintained at all times. And if not what is the cause for this? That requires investigation (dhammavicaya).
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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reflection
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Re: Something Missing

Post by reflection »

One part is maintaining calm in meditation, another part is taking this calm into life around meditation. Sitting meditation is like a training ground, a part of the practice where we transform our minds. We practice how to respond to suffering, and how not to create new suffering. But the change of mind should be permanently, not just a temporal one that only affects us when we sit.

It seems many people have lots of trouble calming their thoughts, but even if you can do it easily, don't stop there. Don't think you've reached the end of meditation when thoughts are gone and some peace arises, because the calm and peace can grow much deeper still. This deeper peace is also easier (I'd say impossible not to) take into life outside of sitting down. If your peace of meditation easily breaks up and leaves no trace effects (which can last up to days) I'd say there is still a lot to explore.

When the mind is really peaceful, that's what it can use for real transformation.

:anjali:
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Mindstar
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Re: Something Missing

Post by Mindstar »

:goodpost:
lobotrock wrote: However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?

I would say it depends on the cause of the suffering. If it is some type of bodily suffering you can send it metta and simply endure it knowing it will pass eventually. If it is mental suffering then you can try to find its exact cause and let go of it.

Sometimes when i sit in meditation the five hindrances are quite strong especially restlessness/monkey mind. The reason for it is often that i´m not content because there is mental suffering for no obvious reason. Only a contented and happy mind can become still properly.
Usually what i do then is to go to a secluded place in the forest for meditation because the energy there is of a higher quality (compared to any city) and has a purifying/healing effect on the mind making it easy to become glad and stilled. Forests are great :thumbsup:

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada
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