MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

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rowyourboat
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by rowyourboat »

'putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world' -is something to start off with and also the end result- there is sutta not found on the internet (SN) where the buddha visits a lay person and he says he has put aside greed and distress with reference to the world using satipattana- the buddha proclaims him a non-returner.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Jechbi »

rowyourboat wrote:there is sutta not found on the internet (SN) where the buddha visits a lay person and he says he has put aside greed and distress with reference to the world using satipattana- the buddha proclaims him a non-returner.
Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Macavity »

Jechbi wrote:Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.
I think he probably means the Sirivaddhasutta. It is somewhere in the SN's Mahavagga. Sorry I can't be more specific.
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Ben
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Ben »

Dear members
Macavity wrote:
Jechbi wrote:Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.
I think he probably means the Sirivaddhasutta. It is somewhere in the SN's Mahavagga. Sorry I can't be more specific.
In future, please provide traceable citations for all scriptural and commentarial literature quotations. Please remember that this is a sutta study group.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi Row,
what is with all the quotes? are you trying to get at something specific or something else? this is a study group and discussion is hard with allot of quotes with no aim to anyone or direction in a particular strand in the discussion, or are you just throwing out several discussions?
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Cittasanto »

rowyourboat wrote:there is growth and development in the faculty of sati/mindfulness
at an early weak level it is swayed by everything which is going on- one cannot even say that the faculty (indirya) of mindfulness exists here - only the potential of it
at the next level we can be aware of things with out getting caught up in it -some of the time at least- here there is space to look on with wisdom, patience
at even higher levels of it's development it can weaken defilements- I read somewhere that it was equivalent to dropping a drop of water on a hot saucepan at very high levels- maybe it could be said to be one of the 'powers' (bala) here

degrees of development could also be explained in terms of degree of detail detected by sati and/or by duration it can be maintained without dropping it

note that the Buddha calls the four foundations of mindfulness the path to the purification of beings, getting rid of evil states etc so it must be able to do this either via samadhi and/or panna that it generates.
Hi Row
I am assuming this is for me directly with our little back and forth discussion going on?
I agree with the last 'note' and the line before, although I would not make the distinction if someone asked me how to develop satipatthana practice, I would just say there is the breath, watch it. and I do find it difficult to tell how the first section here disagrees with my view that mindfulness is reactive, against your statement that it isn't
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Cittasanto »

just curious what is everyones prefered method mentioned in the satipatthana sutta? (besides Anapanasati), and what method do you use for this practice is it commentary or sutta based ?
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by DNS »

Hi Manapa,

I love this chart from Ven. Soma:

Image

So I have found the mental contents or Dhamma objects to a good meditation for me.
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Macavity
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Macavity »

Manapa wrote:just curious what is everyones prefered method mentioned in the satipatthana sutta?
These are my four preferred modes:

Kayanupassana: When lying down, he understands: ‘I am lying down.’

Vedananupassana: When feeling a worldly pleasant feeling, he understands: ‘I feel a worldly pleasant feeling.’

Cittanupassana: He understands mind affected by lust as mind affected by lust.

Dhammanupassana: There being sensual desire in him, he understands: ‘There is sensual desire in me.’
and what method do you use for this practice
I mindfully lie down in the jacuzzi or on the beach. So that's kayanupassana taken care of. If my girlfriend joins me then I'm mindful of the other stuff.
is it commentary or sutta based ?
No, just kilesa-based.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Cittasanto »

TheDhamma wrote:Hi Manapa,

I love this chart from Ven. Soma:

Image

So I have found the mental contents or Dhamma objects to a good meditation for me.
I have seen this chart somewhere recently? or atleast something similar?

and then I realise it may of helped if I provided my preference!

the whole lot :tongue: it depends on the circumstances I am in.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Cittasanto »

Macavity wrote:
Manapa wrote:is it commentary or sutta based ?
No, just kilesa-based.
so is your practice based on what is said in the suttas or commentary?
or do the kilesas tell you this practice is how it is to be done?

PS mine above is from my understanding of the sutta and relevant suttas to the sections as found in the exploration (link below in signature)
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by Cittasanto »

oh and what methed do you use? please describe it, or link to the relevant close description
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

Manapa wrote: I have seen this chart somewhere recently? or atleast something similar?
It's in the Commentary to the Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... wayof.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in the Visuddhimagga.

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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by rowyourboat »

Hi Manapa
I wanted to include in this thread various relevant short suttas which would make the satipatthana sutta hopefully clearer. As for our back and forth, I have said all I can say and dont wish to comment on it any further. :smile:

Sorry for not quoting the specific sutta in this forum.

Good luck!

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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Post by jcsuperstar »

your quotes from other sutta seem on topic to me. so no prob
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