The causes for wisdom

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
dhamma follower
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:48 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby dhamma follower » Tue May 14, 2013 6:58 am

mikenz66 wrote:And I have given you quotes from at least two other teachers (and you've added Sayadaw T yourself) who say essentially the same thing. So it's not something unique to Ajahn Sujin. How could it be, when it's the teaching of the Buddha? Of course, anyone can say that they are not operating with the "idea of someone who can". Whether they really are another matter.

:anjali:
Mike


I would not say that Sayadaw U Tejaniya is teaching the same thing. He is saying many things similar and I believe his understanding of the Dhamma will agree with AS's.

I can't comment on the others because I don't know them well enough. But it's good to know that some teachers are moving in that direction too.

Brgds,
D.F

dhamma follower
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:48 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby dhamma follower » Tue May 14, 2013 7:03 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

dhamma follower wrote:As soon as there's idea of a method, it is the idea of someone who can (attend to the realities as they arise).

I'm not sure whether this is an "English as a second language" issue, or whether this is actually what Sujin teaches, but that is just plain stupid.

That's like saying, "as soon there's idea of a Noble Eightfold Path, it is the idea of someone who can (follow that path)"

I'm glad the Buddha didn't suffer from puggalaphobia... :?

Metta,
Retro. :)


Dear Retro,

A third option is :may be an issue of comprehension. Some people might not find that so plain stupid :-)

When I was 18 and heard about the Four Noble Truth for the first time, I thought: "it's a silly stuff".

Puggalaphobia? Nice word, but may be Ditthiphobia will be a more proper one in this case.

Brgds,

D.F

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue May 14, 2013 7:28 am

dhamma follower wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

dhamma follower wrote:As soon as there's idea of a method, it is the idea of someone who can (attend to the realities as they arise).

I'm not sure whether this is an "English as a second language" issue, or whether this is actually what Sujin teaches, but that is just plain stupid.

That's like saying, "as soon there's idea of a Noble Eightfold Path, it is the idea of someone who can (follow that path)"

I'm glad the Buddha didn't suffer from puggalaphobia... :?

Metta,
Retro. :)


Dear Retro,

A third option is :may be an issue of comprehension. Some people might not find that so plain stupid :-)

When I was 18 and heard about the Four Noble Truth for the first time, I thought: "it's a silly stuff".

Puggalaphobia? Nice word, but may be Ditthiphobia will be a more proper one in this case.
You have totally missed the point here. The suttas make it quite plainly clear that one can use conventional language to speak accurately and asutely about the Dhamma. Just because one uses impersonal abhidhamma-speak does not mean one better understands the Dhamma than one who uses sutta language. What we have seen displayed with this Sujin abhidhamma-speak in a muddling of the Dhamma, making it look like a form of hard determinism.

"As soon as there's idea of a method, it is the idea of someone who can (attend to the realities as they arise)." You are seriously missing something here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby kirk5a » Tue May 14, 2013 1:37 pm

dhamma follower wrote:
kirk5a wrote:When I follow up on the explanation given in the Visuddhimagga for the manner of practice for the "sukkha-vipassaka" what I find is instructions to go on solitary retreat, direct attention to the various aspects of the body, discern the elements, make effort and develop concentration.


The part on elements is in the Concentration Chapter, I don't think it represents the manner of practice for the dry insight worker as a whole. The chapter on Understanding reflects a larger spectrum of objects for insights: four primaries, 18 elements, 12 bases, 5 aggregates. And apart from the going to a secluded place, I don't see anything like a formal practice in the description on the development of concentration based on four elements. It's rather all about a work of understanding.

Yes, it's in the "concentration" chapter, and we are referred there from the "understanding" chapter. Which explicitly demonstrates that concentration, individual effort, "method," "formal practice" - these are all how the Visuddhimagga describe the practice of the "dry-insight worker."
Vis.M XVIII wrote:But one whose vehicle is pure insight, or that same aforesaid one whose vehicle
is serenity, discerns the four elements in brief or in detail in one of the various ways
given in the chapter on the definition of the four elements (XI.27ff.).


Turning to that chapter, it says:
41. So firstly, one of quick understanding who wants to develop this meditation
subject should go into solitary retreat.
Then he should advert to his own entire
material body and discern the elements in brief in this way: “In this body what
is stiffenedness or harshness is the earth element, what is cohesion or fluidity25
[352] is the water element, what is maturing (ripening) or heat is the fire element,
what is distension or movement is the air element.” And he should advert and
give attention to it and review it again and again as “earth element, water
element,” that is to say, as mere elements, not a living being, and soulless.
42. As he makes effort in this way it is not long before concentration arises in
him, which is reinforced by understanding that illuminates the classification of
the elements, and which is only access and does not reach absorption because it
has states with individual essences as its object.

http://www.aimwell.org/News/news.html
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2123
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:53 am

A conversation with Sujin and Nina last year about intellectual understanding :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... age/131507
Than Acharn Sujin, Wang Nam Khiew, 16th, noon 1m)

TA Sujin: Everyone has to develop right understanding.

N: Maybe we are impatient or we don't have enough courage...

TA: ignorance, and clinging, until it's less and less; reality can appear to
pa~n~na as it is, now it appears differently; like the four primaries (rupas):
they do not appear to seeing, but what appears (to seeing) is that which arises
with them (color/vanna), so it's like the transformation of the four primaries
into different things, like magicians; and it takes quite a long time to learn
how the magician can do (his tricks); and this is much more (difficult) than
(learning) the magician (tricks), so it takes longer time to understand the way
the dhammas do (their tricks) .

N: But we're now in the current, pleasant objects, the mountains, the trees, and
we like it, just pleasant feelings.

TA: A reality, pa~n~na can understand it, it's conditioned, it goes away before
we can know what it is; it's like: as soon as it's object, it's gone, so the
other object appears, when pa~n~na understands that; otherwise the self tries,
to cling, and thinking out whatever it is, nama, rupa and so forth, and paccaya;
but actually intellectual understanding just conditions detachment from
clinging, when time comes.

N: Intellectual understanding....

TA: ... is condition for having less attachment

N: Even intellectual understanding

TA: But it's not as effective right understanding as direct

N: No

TA: But it can see the difference between the two

N: It's not so easy to know what is direct understanding

TA: When awareness arises it's different, just a little different, but it has to
be there; it's like seeing and hearing, it seems like they arise together; so,
as that object is still there, right understanding is another moment, like
seeing and hearing, but it appears, so pa~n~na can understand that, no other
object, only that object which is there, seems like appearing, by nimitta.

N: It's more pleasant than yesterday... that museum :-)

TA: Yes, nothing can be compared to the moment of understanding, it's so
precious, to understand; from birth: no understanding, until learning the
Teachings, to understand; the object is exactly the same, from aeons and aeons,
visible object can be seen, and the other objects cannot be seen, so there can
be understanding of everything when there is more and more intellectual
understanding, which will condition direct understanding, (it) keeps on going by
conditions, otherwise (it's) 'I' and 'how I can...' or 'why...'

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:29 am

robertk wrote: . . .
And the point is?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 16761
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:23 pm

Greetings,

tiltbillings wrote:And the point is?

"This thread can consider the causes for panna, wisdom." (from the original post)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:12 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

tiltbillings wrote:And the point is?

"This thread can consider the causes for panna, wisdom." (from the original post)

Metta,
Retro. :)
Which does not really answer the question in relationship to the post it was a response to. Intellectual knowledge definitely has a role to play, but it is a subservient role.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 16761
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:14 am

Greetings,

Huh? Which post... Kirk's post from May 2013?

(perhaps the posts after Robert's should be removed... :geek: )

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:57 am

retrofuturist wrote:
(perhaps the posts after Robert's should be removed... )
Probably not. In the broader context of this thread, I'd like to hear what the point is that he trying to make by posting this dialogue.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2123
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:04 am

tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

tiltbillings wrote:And the point is?

"This thread can consider the causes for panna, wisdom." (from the original post)

Metta,
Retro. :)
Which does not really answer the question in relationship to the post it was a response to. Intellectual knowledge definitely has a role to play, but it is a subservient role.

As retro said I posted this in the causes for wisdom thread. As I understand it correct intellectual understanding is the prime cause for deeper levels of understanding.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:51 am

robertk wrote:As I understand it correct intellectual understanding is the prime cause for deeper levels of understanding.
Intellectual understanding is important, but who determines that one's understanding is THE correct one?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 2455
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Mr Man » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:55 am

tiltbillings wrote:
robertk wrote:As I understand it correct intellectual understanding is the prime cause for deeper levels of understanding.
Intellectual understanding is important, but who determines that one's understanding is THE correct one?


I would say that it is the result is what that determines if one's understanding is correct. I also think that it is easy to misunderstand what "intellectual understanding" is. We associate it with an accumulation of information or with things like communication skills.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:15 am

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
robertk wrote:As I understand it correct intellectual understanding is the prime cause for deeper levels of understanding.
Intellectual understanding is important, but who determines that one's understanding is THE correct one?


I would say that it is the result is what that determines if one's understanding is correct.
Probably so; however, that raises further questions, it would seem.


I also think that it is easy to misunderstand what "intellectual understanding" is. We associate it with an accumulation of information or with things like communication skills.
It seems, looking at how the followers of the Sujin method talk about their practice, that the Sujin method values what would be characterized as an accumulation of knowledge.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

binocular
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby binocular » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:28 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:I would say that it is the result is what that determines if one's understanding is correct.
Probably so; however, that raises further questions, it would seem.

What questions, for example?

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2123
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:17 am

So how do the details of abhidhamma help understanding?

QUOTEi) formal concept (santhana pannatti) corresponding to the form ofthings, such as land, mountain or tree, which are so designated onaccount of the mode of transition of the elements
.ii) collective concept (samuha pannatti), corresponding to modes ofconstruction of materials, to a collection of things, such as avehicle or a chariot.
iii) conventional concept (sammutti pannatti), such as person orindividual, which is derived from the five khandhas.
iv) local concept (disa pannatti), a notion or idea derived from therevolving of the moon, such as the directions of East or West.v) concept of time (kala pannatti), such as morning, evening.
vi) concept of season (masa pannatti), notions corresponding toseasons and months. The months are designated by names, such as Vesakha.
vii) concept of space (akasa), such as a well or a cave. It isderived from space which is not contacted by the four Great Elements.
viii) nimitta pannatti, the mental image which is acquired throughthe
development of samatha, such as the nimitta of a kasina.

See http://www.abhidhamma.org/sujin3.htm Realities and Concepts SujinBoriharnwanaket.

Acharn Sujin explains in 'Realities and concepts' there are different types of concept. Such words as dosa, lobha, metta, colour,hatred, sound are concepts that designate paramattha dhammas, theyare vijjamana pannatti. Words such as person, animal, computer,Robert, Mike do not refer to paramattha dhammas and are calledavijjamana pannati.

) D
oesn't a concept arise at the mind-door?


Concepts are dhammarammana(mental object) and they appear at the mind-door. The mind-door has many different objects including citta,cetasika, rupa and nibbana which are all paramattha dhamma. It alsohas concept as an object.By the development of satipatthana the difference between conceptand paramattha dhamma must gradually becomes clearer.

Now you arereading this so it might be worthwhile analysing what is actuallyhappening. There is visible object, the different colours making upthe computer screen. The colours are real (but arising and passingaway rapidly) the computer screen is not real, however the variousrupas that make up the screen are real,(and arising and passing awayceaselessly). There is cakkhuvinnana, seeing consciousness which isreal (and ephemeral) which arises due to the contact of the eyebase(real, conditioned by kamma done in the past, evanescent). Then thereare processes of citta which experience the same object and thenthere are mind-door processes which think about what was seen and soconcepts are formed up. Yet these concepts do not actually exist.There must be this process occuring, no one can stop it occuring. Ifit didn't occur we would be utterly vacuous, know nothing at all,much less than a new born baby. Thus it is the most natural thingthat concepts arise.Unfortunately, though, throughout samasara we have given theseconcepts special staus that they don't deserve, namely we think theyexist. This mistaken notion means that we will do all sorts of evilto protect these illusionary figments such as self. (endSo how do the details of the Abhidhamma and commentaries help

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:34 am

robertk wrote:The colours are real (but arising and passingaway rapidly) the computer screen is not real
So one set of condition "things" is real, but another is not. What is meant by "real?"
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2123
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:57 am

here is a conversation in poland last year which might be useful
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... age/131573
(Than Acharn sujin in Poland, 12th, pm-A, 14m30)

- 2 -

Ann: She asks: <In one discourse Ajahn Sujin said, <...>, how to cling less
<...> not to give in to the attachment, I don't understand.>

TA: Usually people don't want to understand at all, just want to (know) how, are
they Buddhist? because they don't want to understand.
Jon: Sometimes they want to understand, but they see understanding as a way of
reaching a certain... 'fringe benefit'.

TA: but how?

Jon: by self

TA: (does) the word 'how' indicate understanding, or theory, or what? just
wanting to get, that's all;

J: wanting to know a method;

TA: would you like to understand or to know how?

J: understanding's better.;

TA: otherwise we might not be able to answer the question she's just (asked),
that way - just to show how.

A: <How to study (Dhamma) in a moment of attachment? to food for example. And
you explained again that the answer is 'understanding',<...>, and some of the
conditions for understanding are hearing the true Dhamma and considering it,
discussing it >

TA: - until it's her own understanding

J: There isn't an answer, to the question 'How can I develop understanding when
there is craving for food?'

TA: Who can tell her how? That's why we talk about arammana (object) - food is
arammana, at moment of seeing it - craving for food, food is the arammana; not
understanding what arammana is, so how can there be no craving when there's no
understanding.

A: There can't, but I guess ... when there is no understanding the next logical
question ...

TA: Don't you want to know what craving is? and no one can stop its arising;
just the self trying not to have it.

A: When people who are just beginning to study the Dhamma, to listen...

TA: That person should understand what Dhamma is; understanding one word at a
time is the best thing.

A: I'm thinking about this in the context of people who ask, <...>, when someone
asks and shows an interest in the Dhamma.

TA: But there are many people who show interest in Dhamma, like wanting to know
or to understand; wanting to know what Dhamma is or don't want to know what
Dhamma is, just want to know, whatever they like to know, like craving for food.

A: I don't think they know.

TA: Tell me how to be happy, see, who can tell? tell me that you don't have
attachment, who can do?

A: I think she would like to know how to develop understanding.

TA: Of now, or what? not of seeing; whatever appears, does she want to
understand (that)? Maybe she'd say "no, I want to understand how to be happy".

A: <... This is quite new to me, to develop understanding by intellectual
understanding, since Goenka always told me to do the contrary.>

TA: Not Buddha.

Lukas: <...> you always talk about the Dhamma, the Dhamma, but this is not yet
understood at all, and my point is that even if there is thinking like this, in
my case like even if it's not dhamma but just a story that thinks of 'this is
anatta, dukkha, anicca', and isn't it the way to develop more understanding?

TA: What thinks?

L: Vitakka.

TA: Or, dhamma; no one thinks, anytime that thinking arises there can be the
understanding of that moment which thinks, that is not that which sees - all
comes to anattaness, realities; because sometimes one thinks "ok, seeing is no
me, but thinking is me, I (think)".

L: But it's a long way; it's like one moment of understanding and then many
moments of ignorance <...>

TA: Yes, so you understand what is meant by khanti (patience), viriya (effort),
sacca (truth), adhitthana (resolution, four of the ten perfections)...

L: Yes, little by little, by I'd like to understand more than khanti.

TA: 'I'? :-); can you understand everything, in a day, or two days, or two
years, or twenty years?
It seems like that's not so difficult to understand, but actually the more you
know the more you can see the subtlety of reality - it's beyond expectation,
nobody can think about the moment when it arises and falls away, just know that
whatever appears now arises and falls away, that's all and that's not enough,
because it's only thinking about that but not the direct experience of it; when
one knows that it is true, shouldn't one follows it until it can be moment of
penetration, penetrating the truth, with understanding

L: <...> I appreciate your teaching so much because it's so natural, <...>, just
read and listen and the mind finds its own way by different moments, even if
it's very slow; but some people have their particular way of developing, <...>
and observe what happens in daily life, what do you think about this?

TA: Who is doing this?

L: A self.

TA: Ok, so that is not the way to eradicate the idea of self.

L: But maybe by way of self ...

TA: No, never, the way of self is avijja, not understanding, ignorance;
otherwise there is no self, if there is no ignorance.
Where is ignorance now? Whenever there is no right understanding, whenever
akusala citta arises, there is a clinging to the idea of I or self, and vijja is
the opposite of ignorance.
Can anyone show a way to get rid of ignorance, a shortcut, a method? when it's
method it's ignorance.

J: If we choose...

TA: Actually, lobha chooses.

J: But if we choose, for example, visible object, is it in fact visible object?
or is it just an idea...

TA: And how can you understand visible object as not self? - uncontrollable, how
come to appear to this moment.

J: I suppose the idea is that by choosing to observe visible object, you see
that ...

TA: Ok, observe - in what way, to understand it? it's like this, just like this;
and what's the way to observe? open you eyes, or what?:-)

L: It's like trying so much.

TA: Is cetana (intention) one of the eightfold (factors of the) path?

L: No. But Ajahn, people usually want some particular way...

TA: People, not me; I can't do anything for those people at all -
arammanupanissaya paccaya, pakatupanissaya paccaya, why do we read about all
these (conditions) - just to forget about it, and have the idea of choosing; it
doesn't help at all if one reads and there is the idea of selecting, choosing:
to understand this, not that.
Sotapanna eradicates wrong view completely, from everything: thinking, liking,
attachment, aversion - whatever it is it's conditioned.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:56 am

L: <...> I appreciate your teaching so much because it's so natural, <...>, just
read and listen and the mind finds its own way by different moments, even if
it's very slow; but some people have their particular way of developing, <...>
and observe what happens in daily life, what do you think about this?

TA: Who is doing this?

L: A self.

TA: Ok, so that is not the way to eradicate the idea of self.

L: But maybe by way of self ...

TA: No, never, the way of self is avijja, not understanding, ignorance;
otherwise there is no self, if there is no ignorance.
Where is ignorance now? Whenever there is no right understanding, whenever
akusala citta arises, there is a clinging to the idea of I or self, and vijja is
the opposite of ignorance.
Can anyone show a way to get rid of ignorance, a shortcut, a method? when it's
method it's ignorance.

J: If we choose...

TA: Actually, lobha chooses.
I would like to see sutta support for this.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2123
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:05 am

thanks for your questions Tilt.
i am in japan this week but will be in bangkok from the 17th and have more time to devote.
I will try to give some replies in the meantime when I can.


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kim OHara, Tom and 11 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine